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SOA Message?

  • Artigo

SearchWebServices published an article this week wondering if Microsoft "gets" SOA.  I think you know my opinion on this but I'm interested in hearing yours.

What do you think is Microsoft's SOA message? 

Feedback/flames/etc are highly encouraged.

Comments

  • Anonymous
    August 29, 2007
    Wouldn't it be more natural if Microsoft started internally to form an official statement around SOA instead of asking the audience for help? Don't you have a PR organization or did you through them out after missing Internet 1.0 and replaced them with softie-bloggers? You are the N.A.S.A., you should know these things ... fgs ;)

  • Anonymous
    August 29, 2007
    Well, I guess I did ask for flames.  Thanks for responding (I think).   Microsoft's officialviews on SOA are available at http://www.microsoft.com/soa.   I'm personally interested in hearing what people think about these views.   (Note the <legal-stuff> disclaimer on the left.)

  • Anonymous
    August 29, 2007
    While I vacillate from client to client on the inherent value of SOA, I appreciate that Microsoft is starting to come out of the closet and present a point of view that I can reference. I've shared your recent "SOA in the Real World" document with colleagues and clients alike and have heard nothing but good reviews. "Does Microsoft get SOA?" What a silly question. What the author of the article is really addressing is whether Microsoft's point of view jives with his own. The article almost appears to be an attempt to revisit/resurrect the great "Java Versus .NET War". The reality of enterprise IT today is that organizations that buy Microsoft will likely use .NET for services. Organizations that buy Java will use one of the Java containers / service frameworks. ESBs, single sign on products, portals, and SOA governance products are all up for grabs. That said, my experience is that the install base here is slanted pretty substantially towards Java-based products that run on / are compatible with the MS platform. The author of the article did get one thing right though - SOA is really all about the business. That said, most of the folks I deal with recognize that both Microsoft and the Java vendors are just that - product vendors. These vendors' SOA points of view are meant to align with their product offerings, market niches, and strategies. These things don't necessarily have anything to do with the business and core competencies of the organizations that use these products. Real business people have become skeptical of IT in general. This skepticism is likely to be heightened in the presence of anyone who claims to "get SOA" in the context of their business and organizational environments. Does MS get SOA? Do the Java vendors get SOA? Who cares? Can you help me be more agile, responsive, and cost efficient and back that up with some demonstrated ROI? Now that's the question I'd really like to have answered. Thomas Beck www.beckshome.com

  • Anonymous
    August 29, 2007
    Beside the "flames", I would just like to comment on this ... "There's always something new popping up in the Java universe like Spring Web services or BPEL4People" Microsoft has created a passive community where developers sitting waiting for MS to deliver the goodies. Java people on the other hand are brought up with a "you-can-do-it"-mindset. Microsoft works in parallel with organizations like OASIS and OOo. If Microsoft would participate in a democratic way, not leaving the scene if IBM or SUN enters, then maybe the climate will change. The SOA discussion is just one example of the reaction from the passive community. Microsoft has up to now avoided talking about SOA. That has resulted in a situation where the passive community happened to be between a massive SOA wave and MS where SOA was nothing more than Indigo. In the same time Apache, JBoss and several hundred initiatives in the Java community started working on a SOA stack based on standards. Today Microsoft starts asking them self and others, "what have we done wrong? (like in this post)". My suggestion would be to 1) let SOA and ESB fly by and try to avoid talking about it. SOA and ESB are to complex and we have already start seeing examples of customers regretting they even read about SOA, and 2) participate in the standardization groups and start building a better community where developers can be more productive. Btw I read an article on how Microsoft sent out letters to partners telling them to go voting for OOXML, "or else" ... This is not even working in parallel with standardization organizations, it's criminal.

  • Anonymous
    August 30, 2007
    Dan W, That's a very broad brush you're painting with there.   I wouldn't describe the .NET or the Java communities as passive.  Developers shouldn't think of themselves as being in "communities" - keep an open mind and use the best languages and platforms for your requirements.   Many people at Microsoft have worked in both "communities" for many years (I have, including open source). Microsoft has worked for many years with Sun, IBM and many others within open standards organizations to develop the standards we all know and use today.   Microsoft has been talking about SOA and helping customers succeed with SOA for many years.   This is nothing new.  The blog entry you refer to was my reaction to a somewhat biased article.   SOA is far more than WCF (nee Indigo).   SOA is also far more than SCA.  I prefer a less technical definition: SOA is a loosely-coupled architecture designed to meet the business needs of the organization.  Loose-coupling and open standards are the real key. Regarding stacks based upon open standards, .NET and Java implementations must support open standards to ensure interoperability. Interoperability between Java and .NET is real and has been proven over and over for many years. Regarding SOA, I don't think Microsoft has done anything wrong - I was personally interested in people's opinions regarding the spin the article was attempting to put on Microsoft and SOA. I'm not aware of an "or else" policy for adopting OOXML - I'd love to read that article.   Thanks for having such an interesting perspective on things.  Try to keep an open mind about solution technologies.  Programming languages and platforms are nothng more than tools for getting the job done.  Use the one that fits your needs while getting  the job done as efficiently as possible.

  • Anonymous
    September 04, 2007
    Last week I quoted from a rather strange article wondering if Microsoft "gets SOA" . Based on a recent

  • Anonymous
    October 23, 2007
    I am totally agree with jevdemon about not thinking .Net or Java as two communities, I think that whe must adress as developers community. Microsoft participate in organitzations that standarize A&D works such as OMG and make its important contribution. I really like your SOA definition "SOA is a loosely-coupled architecture designed to meet the business needs of the organization." And I will add "using services." I think is one of the key. And it will end with the question "What a service is?"