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iTunes, WMP, iPod, iTMS and choice

  • Artykuł

There's been lots of discussion following the release of Windows Media Player 10 regarding choice. It's a bit complicated because there are so many axes of choice, and so many things to pivot around. I'll try to summarize some of the issues here.

iPod:
OS: You can use Mac OS 10.1 or later, or Windows 2000 or later (although Windows 2003 isn't listed)
Player on computer: iTunes only
Music stores: iTunes music store only or anything seling unprotected MP3s (ignoring Real for now)

WMP DRM compatible player:
OS: Windows 2000 or later, no Mac OS support
Player on computer: Any WMP DRM compatible player, including WMP, MusicMatch, WinAMP, and clients included with music stores (like Napster)
Music stores: A bunch, including MSN music, Walmart, Napster, and MusicMatch.

iTunes:
Devices: iPod only
OS: You can use Mac OS 10.1 or later, or Windows 2000 or later (although Windows 2003 isn't listed)
Music stores: iTunes music store only or anything seling unprotected MP3s (ignoring Real for now)

Windows Media Player compatible players:
Devices: Lots and lots
OS: Windows 2000 or later for DRM support, other OSs including Mac OS for unprotected content. WMP 10 is Windows XP only.
Music stores: A bunch, including MSN music, Walmart, Napster, and MusicMatch. Note: the best integration is with WMP 10, which is Windows XP only.

It's not that cut and dry, is it? If you have a Mac, iTunes and iPod is the obvious solution. You don't have a choice :-). If you are on Windows, basically have two potential pathes (ignoring the others for now). If you take the Apple path, you lock yourself into an iPod and iTunes, but have the option to move to the Mac if you want. If you take the Microsoft path, you can choose between a variety of devices, a variety of player apps, and a variety of music stores. If choice in the option of Mac vs. Windows isn't important to you, then the Microsoft path clearly has more options. What makes the decision hard is that the iPod is arguably the best device out there, iTunes is arguably the best player out there, and the iTunes music store is arguably the best music store out there. :-) I don't know how long that will be true.

Comments

  • Anonymous
    September 12, 2004
    Windows 2003 is not listed for iTunes/iPod, but I have used them together with no issues.

    James.
  • Anonymous
    September 12, 2004
    iTunes is not the only way you can play music from an iPod. You can use Anapod Explorer among others.

    Regarding choice, iPods have about 50 percent or more of market share so I think MS should listen to its customers and make it a compatible device for Windows Media Player.

    Most people don't care about the choice thing though. Most people want an iPod.
  • Anonymous
    September 12, 2004
    I don't believe Anapod Explorer can play protected content.

    Microsoft does not have an option to support the iPod in Windows Media Player as far as I know. Apple has a proprietary/closed system and they want to keep it that way.
  • Anonymous
    September 12, 2004
    Actually, MS has the option of selling me non-DRM protected files to play on my iPod no problem, be it MP3 or even AAC (the codec is open). It is only the DRM that Apple is not making available.
  • Anonymous
    September 12, 2004
    Hey Dan, I've sync'ed my wife's old Rio S35 with iTunes without any problems. There's an iTunes plug-in available for many Rio digital music players at http://www.rioaudio.com/itunes/. I suspect that other vendors have iTunes plug-ins as well (there's an open API for iTunes for plug-in creation at http://developer.apple.com/sdk/).

    Any application that is QuickTime enabled can play back music purchased through the iTunes Music Store. You could write your own music player, have it call QuickTime and you'd get access to the music. In fact, you can play back music purchased from the iTunes Music Store in non-iTunes apps like iPhoto, iDVD and iMovie. I'm pretty sure that the situation is a bit more "open" than you portray it.
  • Anonymous
    September 12, 2004
    Dan, I think your blog misses some salient points:

    1) iTunes can import WMA files, NOT protected WMA files, but unprotected WMA files. <http://www.ipodlounge.com/articles_more.php?id=4900_0_8_0_M>. So if you have a collection of tunes in WMA, you can use it with your iPod with no problems.

    2) iTunes works with a variety of MP3 players, including those from RIO, and others: <http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=93548>

    3) iTunes supports a variety of formats including: WAV, AIFF, MP3, MIDI, Apple Lossless

    With the iTunes music store having:

    -- 1,000,000+ songs
    -- incredible ease of use for the ITMS and player
    -- advanced features like music allowances, audio books, etc.
    -- seamless use with iPod and other devices

    I don't see what Microsoft or the other stores offer that is better or even comprable.
  • Anonymous
    September 12, 2004
    'Apple has a proprietary/closed system...'

    Wrong! Apple uses the industry standard AAC format developed by Dolby Labs (and others). It is an open source extension of the MPEG4 standard available to ANY manufacturer.

    What IS proprietary is Apple's DRM (Digital Rights Management) software called FairPlay.

    Of course the EXACT same thing can be said of Microsoft. The system it uses to play music on your music player (Windows Media Player) is available to ANY manufacturer. Microsoft's DRM is every bit as proprietary as Apple's.

    The same holds true for Real, as well.

    The question then becomes do you want to use the #1 selling MP3 device (iPod) with the #1 digital music distribution site (iTunes Music Store) on either your PC or Mac? [Realizing, of course, that you CAN import CDs and other formats like WAV, MP3, and Lossless into an iPod on either platform]

  • Anonymous
    September 12, 2004
    This argument abuot choice is just stupid. It's really about to DRM or not DRM and the latter is really the only choice. One should not buy from either Apple or MS but buy CDs or buy from such vendors as Magnatunes.
  • Anonymous
    September 12, 2004
    Since CD ripping and widely-distributed MP3s is still the dominant method for getting music onto the music player, you should add that factor to your summary.

    So if most of your music is on CDs or already in MP3 format, then if you have a Mac, you have other choices besides iTunes but not WMP 10, but still may be limited to iPod and iPod mini. If you have a PC, you can use many music players including iTunes, and you can use an iPod/iPod mini. If you plan to buy music online, under this scenario, you may use Real's store as an alternative to iTunes Music Store.
  • Anonymous
    September 12, 2004
    http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=93548
  • Anonymous
    September 13, 2004
    Ok, I wasn't clear that I was focusing on protected content. I should have made that more clear. If you buy CDs and rip the music yourself, that gives you the most choice, and the highest quality!
  • Anonymous
    September 13, 2004
    The comment has been removed
  • Anonymous
    September 13, 2004
    Yes, if you used an iPod once you really do not have a choice on the portable player side. The lock into iTunes is not as bad as it might sound because it is useable (I baught my iPod when Apple used MusicMatch for windows support, which was a rather bad player). The lack of choice for music stores is, at least here in Germany, not bad either: iTMS' 0.99€/song is cheaper than most of the other stores I checked (up to 1.99€/song) and its collection covers most of my needs :)

    I used to use WMP9 and AnaPod before the windows release of iTunes and I find that iTunes is easier to use than WMP9 (I haven't tested WMP10 yet; WMP was better than any other windows player tho). On the other hand I still use WMP to play movies because the QuickTime player is rather annoying.
  • Anonymous
    September 13, 2004
    The biggest difference between iPod and the zillions of horrid competing devices is the interface. Criminy - If the engineers at Sony or Matsushita (or a bunch of others like Rio) would spend a few hundred thousand on human-interface guidelines, they could come up with simple, easy buttons that would always work the same way on every one of their devices as folks trade up. No learning curve.

    Instead, they use all sorts of stoopid ideas, like having a sea of teensy, badly-marked buttons that make no sense. On my Panasonic MP3 CD player, you have to hit one of ten nearly-identical buttons (the second one from the right) TWICE to turn off the CD, but this doesn't work on the radio. Does the first push of the button pause the player? Nope.

    According to the markings on the case, it does something that effects the "OPR". Whatever the heck that is.

    Somebody handed me a Nomad Jukebox MP3 player on a plane so that I could look at it, and I struggled for half an hour to figure out how to unlock the buttons. In the meantime, the other guy tried all of the functions on my iPod. When he finally came over to swap back, he held down the big, black, unmarked central button and that unlocked everything. Then, I spent five additional minutes trying to figure out how to use it.

    THAT's why iPods are so popular - As simple and effective as they can be, without having to memorize a manual that has been awkwardly translated from another language.

    That's why Apple's winning this round.
  • Anonymous
    September 13, 2004
    Dan, it doesn't matter about the iPod or iTunes supporting WMA or not.

    Microsoft won't support anything but the absolute minimal featureset for Windows Media on anything but Windows. I have WMP on my Mac. I may as well not bother, because other than a handful of non-DRM'd stuff, it's useless. The player is kludgy, and i can't play any, or very much DRM'd stuff, because Microsoft refuses to support WMA fully on the Mac.

    So even if I didn't care about iTunes, and WANTED to use a WMA player on the Mac I could not. Napster uses WMA, and DRM, so it cannot function on the Mac. Neither can any other WMA-based music service, because Microsoft will not support WMA's DRM on the Mac.

    Until that happens, it's not Apple's fault at all, it's Redmond's.

    john
  • Anonymous
    September 13, 2004
    Your missive misses several salient points:

    1) Microsoft's WMA format is closed and proprietary. Apple's AAC is an industry standard

    2) DRM has no industry standard. There are numerous competing standards that are incompatible with each other

    3) iTunes and the iPod is not the only choice a Mac user has but obviously the iTunes store is currently the only choice for DRM downloaded music for Apple users

    and the most important point

    4) by controlling the hardware AND software Apple provides an iPod user experience that is second to none. Yes there are several mp3 players that come close or even surpass the iPod alone. However each is hobbled by software and/or drivers making for a lackluster experience. This, in fact, is a general problem for the PC world as a whole.
  • Anonymous
    September 13, 2004
    I think it's a matter of time before someone figure out the IPOD and take it's momentum away. But the real hard decicsion comes down to these:

    people have known to listen to their CD's on computers with
    a player. And to this day, Apple has made this integration very well with itune's interface and very user friendly that even a baby just delivered will figure it out.

    with Itune, you have a sense of security, because everything work so well all the way down to the ipod.

    Last, Is probably the reason why apple Itunes+ipod works well, and the rest fail, is because you automaticaly associates the way songs are arranged from the itunes -->Ipod. So, no need to learn 2 things at the same time (itune and the Ipod.)
  • Anonymous
    September 13, 2004
    The comment has been removed
  • Anonymous
    September 13, 2004
    How about taking into account the fact that the music you buy on the iTunes Music Store can be burned to CD's that can play on just about ANY CD player in the world with the same sound quality as the tunes playing on iTunes or on the iPod.

    You can even rip back the tracks on any system to another format with only a slight degradation in quality.

    You should take into account the DRM policies for each stores, Apple has the most liberal terms and all tunes have the same terms so no bad surprises. Most stores limit the number of players you can copy your music to (often 1 to 3 only) while you can copy your iTMS music to an unlimited number of iPods. You can also play the music on up to 5 computers which is higher than just about any music DRM.

    I don't think it was intentional, but for a weird reason, almost every important points you forgot to include was favorable to Apple...

    It's clear that you focused on the parts where MS looks more open, even if the state of the overall industry shows that people do have choice on every music player, since 97%+ of people are using non-DRMed music like mp3s, CDs and AAC.

    95%+ of iPod users get the music on their iPod from ripping their own CD collection and sharing tunes with friends on p2p networks. The online music market is only the tip of the iceberg, and we know what happens when you only take the tip of an iceberg into account...
  • Anonymous
    September 13, 2004
    MSN Music also lets you burn CDs and play your music on 5 different computers.
  • Anonymous
    September 13, 2004
    The comment has been removed
  • Anonymous
    September 13, 2004
    "arguably," Dan? Really? Who argues that anything other than an iPod is desirable? The only arguments from --consumers-- I've heard for other devices is that the iPod is too expensive, in which case they're not gonna buy something remotely close to the iPod's functionality anyway.
  • Anonymous
    September 13, 2004
    The popularity of the iPod and iPod mini have created an accessories market of over hundreds of items that increase the value of your iPod and your music. Among many other things, these accessories include many ingeniously designed stereo speakers and all sorts of car stereo adapters.

    This is unmatched by all 70 different WMA devices put together.
  • Anonymous
    September 13, 2004
    I'm not interested in buying music that is less useful to me than a CD. If I buy a CD I can use it as I wish, play it in any player, etc. Why do I want to support a shift in the market that will make a less useful distribution prevalent? On top of that, the downloads are lossy, so it doesn't even sound as good.

    I'd be interested in buying non-drm's lossless encodings of music as downloads. SHN's or lossless WMP encodings are fine -- I can push either into the format I need to use whether its for a portable, another computer or onto a good old fashioned CD. This is where I get value -- more convenient distribution, better selection than local music store, without loss of quality or the ability to use my music how I like to.
  • Anonymous
    September 13, 2004
    The comment has been removed
  • Anonymous
    September 13, 2004
    The comment has been removed
  • Anonymous
    September 13, 2004
    With unprotected music, the iPod+iTunes provides for MP3, as do all players except Sony (which requires conversion). The iPod also provides Apple lossless. Some other portable players provide Ogg Vorbis. So choice is not a big issue as there's not any lock-in.

    In fact, given the number of neat and useful accessories, iPod provides more choice than any other player.
  • Anonymous
    September 13, 2004
    Dan Crevier wrote:
    "MSN Music also lets you burn CDs and play your music on 5 different computers."

    And your point would be that Apple's DRM is not the most liberal? Again you focus on the points where MSN is better or equal to Apple and leave out the parts where Apple is better.

    How many times can you burn a playlist to CDs without changing it with the MSN service? Apple's limit is now 7 (you can rearange the playlist to get over this limitation) but how much is the MSN limit? Most WMA online music stores I checked had a lower limit and most of them had different restrictions depending on the tune.

    How many music players can you copy a single MSN track to? For the iTMS it's an unlimited number of iPods, on most other online music stores it's from 1 to 3 depending on the tune or store.

    Even if MSN matched the iTunes music store DRM policies, it would just prove how much it's good to have Apple compete with them.

    Dan your article/post is a collection of supposed facts. Since many people here have shown that some of those are not true and that you left out important ones, would you please think about rewriting your article? Whatever your point is, at least use all known facts pertaining to the issue. I guess your point would be too hard to make then...
  • Anonymous
    September 13, 2004
    I was responding to your previous post. MSN music also lets you burn a playlist 7 times. And, you can burn it to an unlimited number of devices. See http://beta.music.msn.com/help/rights. I haven't seen any inaccuracies pointed out. I don't think I was clear enough that I was focused on protected content, but that's been covered by the comments.
  • Anonymous
    September 13, 2004
    The comment has been removed
  • Anonymous
    September 13, 2004
    The comment has been removed
  • Anonymous
    September 15, 2004
    I just think that the company who is the sole reason why you can't use DRM-9 on the Mac, (Microsoft) is trying to spin their refusal to enable WMP-Mac to handle that as Apple's fault.

    Usually MS tries a little harder than that, I think the PR department's just getting lazy.
  • Anonymous
    September 16, 2004
    Huh? Who blamed Apple for not having WMP-Mac with DRM?
  • Anonymous
    September 17, 2004
    The comment has been removed
  • Anonymous
    October 07, 2004
    MS and Apple can share plenty of blame for this. Both companies are very stubborn, and hope to "win" the DRM war. What would be best for consumers would be to have them work together to provide choice across the board. Use WMP10 with your iPod and the iTunes store, whatever... The fact is iPod is the leader today, and it's excellent, but the one-vs-many approach will likely make MS the winner here (like it or not). Microsoft only recently integrated the music download stores into WMP10, and the sheer number of stores to choose from, as well as the number of portable devices to choose from, should win market share. My wife has an iPod, but we also have a Creative Labs 'Soundblaster Wireless Music' device on our stereo. It's a pain that anything my wife downloads from iTunes we need to burn to CD, then rip in MP3 or WMA format to listen to on the stereo. We aren't sharing with anyone out of the house -- but are forced to 'break' the copy protection just to listen to music we paid for (Apple's response, by the way, is that they offer a similar device to the SBWM -- thanks, but no thanks). I just wish MS and Apple would work together on this. Competition is good to encourage innovation, but when it gets to this point, it's time to work together and do what's best for your customers.
  • Anonymous
    October 08, 2004
    The comment has been removed
  • Anonymous
    October 09, 2004
    The funniest thing about many of the comments here is that there are people out there who think they know more about Apple or its products than Dan. Perhaps those of you who think Dan has some hidden agenda should do a little research on his background and why many people in the Mac community know him and have a lot of respect for his contributions over the years.
  • Anonymous
    May 23, 2008
    There's been lots of discussion following the release of Windows Media Player 10 regarding choice. It's a bit complicated because there are so many axes of choice, and so many things to pivot around. I'll try to summarize some of the issues here. iPod