Windows Installer - MSI3.0

Posted April 20, 2004

Chat Date: April 13, 2004

Please note: Portions of this transcript have been edited for clarity

Introduction

Moderator: Eric_S (Microsoft)
Welcome to today's Chat. Our topic is Windows Installer - MSI3.0. Questions, comments, and suggestions are welcome.

Let's introduce our hosts for today!

Host: Carolyn (Microsoft)
Hello! I'm Carolyn, a developer on the Windows Installer team. I've been with the team for almost five years now and specialize in general architecture and patching and upgrades (among other things).

Host: Rahul (Microsoft)
Hi. I am Rahul. I am the development lead of the MSI team.

Host: KenWong (Microsoft)
Greetings! My name is Ken and I am a tester on the windows Installer Team.

Host: OmSharma (Microsoft)
Hi! My name is Om Sharma. I am the Program Manager for the Windows Installer team.

Host: Hem (Microsoft)
Hi, I am Hemchander. I am a developer in the Windows Installer group.

Host: asharma (Microsoft)
Hello! I'm Ashish. I am a tester.

Moderator: Eric_S (Microsoft)
Welcome everyone, let's get started!

Start of Chat

Host: Carolyn (Microsoft)
Q: What’s new in MSI 3.0 from MSI 2.0?
A: MSI 3.0 is focused on application servicing. New features in MSI 3.0 include the ability to uninstall patches, ability to create delta-compression patches without source requirements, ability to sequence patches, ability to bless patches for application by non-administrators to elevated installs, static source list management, and richer set of inventory API.

Host: Rahul (Microsoft)
Q: Also... what kind of backward compatibility issues should we expect?
A: We are making every effort to prevent backward compatibility issues.

Host: Rahul (Microsoft)
A: A significant portion of our internal testing as well as beta testing was focused on making sure that there are no backward compatibility issues.

Host: Rahul (Microsoft)
A: That said, if there are any important issues, we will point them out in the release notes as well as in the docs whenever applicable.

Host: OmSharma (Microsoft)
Q: When will MSI 3.0 be released? (dates.... please)
A: MSI3.0 is slated for release with Windows XP/SP2 - Q4/2004. We will also provide a redist release for MSI3.0 that targets Win2k/SP3 and higher, Windows XP - RTM and SP1 and Windows 2003 Server RTM within a couple of weeks of the Windows XP/SP2 release.

Host: OmSharma (Microsoft)
A: The MSI30 redist package will not install on Windows XP/SP2 as that release will already have the latest version of MSI3.0

Host: Carolyn (Microsoft)
Q: Do we have list of new tables (validation or otherwise)?
A: There are a few new tables that are required to make use of the new servicing functionality. All of the tables are related to patching: MsiPatchMetadata, MsiPatchSequence, MsiPatchCertificate. The MsiPatchMetadata table is used to denote whether or not a patch is uninstallable and provides information for Add/Remove Programs. The MsiPatchSequence table is used for sequencing patches. The MsiPatchCertificate table is used for least-privileged user account patching. The MsiPatchMetadata and MsiPatchSequence tables are included in the MSP itself.

Host: KenWong (Microsoft)
Q: Can I use MSI 2 and MSI 3 together on one Machine?
A: MSI20 and MSI30 cannot coexist on one machine. Upon install, all MSI20 binaries will be upgraded to version 3.0.

Host: Rahul (Microsoft)
Q: Can I install MSI 3 on Win9x Machines?
A: No. MSI3.0 will only be supported on Windows 2000 SP3 and higher, Windows XP and Windows Server 2003.

Host: OmSharma (Microsoft)
Q: On the release date for SP2, has it been confirmed for June 23?
A: The Windows XP/SP2 release team owns the specific dates for the release. Windows Installer team works with the SP2 release team to ensure that we can meet their deadlines.

Host: Carolyn (Microsoft)
Q: How will WIX affect MSI 3.0?
A: WIX is the Windows Installer XML authoring tool. It doesn't have a direct affect on MSI 3.0. The WIX authoring tool makes it possible to author installation packages using XML and to easily integrate building packages in a build environment. Future enhancements to WIX may make it easier to build patches as well -- something well-served by MSI 3.0

Host: OmSharma (Microsoft)
Q: Will MSI 4.0 "consume" XML natively?
A: At this time we are not in a position to comment on MSI4.0 features. This chat is to cover features in the MSI3.0 release.

Host: Rahul (Microsoft)
Q: Does MSI 3.0 allow for web installing across a secure https link?
A: Yes, MSI 3.0 has much better support for this. However, https links that require prompting the user for credentials will not work.

Host: Carolyn (Microsoft)
Q: Will the WIX project be updated to handle MSI 3.0?
A: There shouldn't be any major updates required for WIX to handle MSI 3.0. However, it could be made to allow for easy building of patches and support the new MSI 3.0 patching tables. WIX is an open source project so the community can add future enhancements to WIX.

Host: OmSharma (Microsoft)
Q: How big is the package for MSI 3?
A: The current size of the MSI3.0 redist package is less than 2 Megabytes. We don't expect the size to grow significantly between now and the final RTM release.

Host: OmSharma (Microsoft)
Q: How does MSI4.0 (for Longhorn) compare with MSI 3.0? Is there a separate development team?
A: This chat is focused on MSI3.0. We are not accepting questions for MSI4.0 in this chat.

Host: Carolyn (Microsoft)
Q: Where can I find more information on WIX?
A: The WIX project is available at https://www.sourceforge.net/projects/wix.

Host: asharma (Microsoft)
Q: Will there be an update to ORCA with the release of MSI 3.0?
A: Yes, ORCA will be updated to support new MSI3.0 features. It will allow you to add the MsiPatchSequence and MsiPatchMetadata tables directly or to view those already present in the patch. Additionally, there are a number of other improvements to Orca (ability to cancel validation, ability to change the codepage of a package, new help file documenting features).

Host: Rahul (Microsoft)
Q: Will we ever use msi file for Windows CE installs, instead of cabs?
A: At the moment, there are no plans for that.

Host: Carolyn (Microsoft)
Q: Is there a way in MSI 3.0 to make patches not require the original source if non-versioned files are not listed in the hash tables and are not a part of the patch?
A: Yes, this is one of the MSI 3.0 improvements. Only files actually updated by the patch will be examined in the patch application transaction. However, I would still recommend that you populate the MsiFileHash table.

Host: OmSharma (Microsoft)
Q: If MSI 3.0 is included in SP2, will it be possible to not install MSI 3.0 as part of the upgrade?
A: MSI30 is part of the WinXP/SP2 release. When you upgrade to SP2, you get MSI3.0. There is no mechanism to not install MSI3.0 as part of the upgrade to xpsp2

Host: Hem (Microsoft)
Q: If an MSI database is modified during the install by a custom action (some fields in tables changed), is the modified database cached or just the original version that was run without the changes?
A: Database caching happens prior to any actions are executed. So, the original version that was run will be cached without any changes.

Moderator: Eric_S (Microsoft)
Hello. For those just joining the chat - Our topic is Windows Installer - MSI3.0. Questions, comments and suggestions are welcome.

Host: Carolyn (Microsoft)
Q: Has MS with 3.0 fixed the bug about 'secure' properties specified in MsiHiddenProperties showing up in the log file. I logged this bug but have no means to track if it has been fixed.
A: Yes, this bug was fixed in MSI 3.0 (it was also introduced in MSI 3.0 Beta 1). Thanks for the report! Note that if you are a member of the MSI 3.0 beta program, you can indicate that you want to receive e-mail information for bugs that you file through the beta site. That way you can actually know the status of the issue.

Host: OmSharma (Microsoft)
Q: Can I get a definite list of Microsoft's best practices on component management and validation?
A: You should run validation on all MSI packages that you create and ensure that there are no errors. You should understand the validation warnings and determine the best course of action for each warning. The MSDN - MSI SDK has a section on "What happens if the component rules are broken" which gives a good overview of things to avoid for component management.

Host: Rahul (Microsoft)
Q: Is there any circumstances where an auto-repair would change a source path from a drive letter to the UNC path mapped to that drive letter?
A: No. If the registered sourcepath is drive letter based, then it will stay that way unless a sourcelist manipulation API is explicitly invoked to change the sourcepath.

Host: Carolyn (Microsoft)
Q: Q. What features does MSI 3.0 provide to help re-direct source if say a workstation is moved from one location to another?
A: MSI provides static source list management. In other words it provides a complete set of source list API that allows you to enumerate all sources, add new sources, remove sources, and update source list media entries for patches and packages. The API is also exposed through automation methods so it can also be scripted. You could use the API to alter the currently registered source list.

Host: Rahul (Microsoft)
Q: Rahul - just to clarify - the path will never change - does this apply to MSI 2.x as well as 3.0?
A: That is correct.

Host: Hem (Microsoft)
Q: Does msizap and the other tools work with MSI 3.0?
A: A new MsiZap that handles MSI 3.0 registration will be released. An update to PatchWiz has already been released via RC1 and it has the ability to create MSI 3.0 patches with sequencing information. The new Orca also has support for viewing patches directly. Other tools like MsiDB will also be updated to make use and expose the new functionality of MSI 3.0.

Host: Carolyn (Microsoft)
Q: Is anything changing for Minor or Major Updates in MSI 3.0?
A: The classification of minor and major updates is the same in MSI 3.0 as they were in MSI 2.0. A major upgrade involves a change in the ProductCode. It is recommended that you use an .MSI installation package as your distribution vehicle for upgrades. The MSI 3.0 feature set is tailored to small updates and minor updates. More specifically, the MSI 3.0 feature set is designed around patches (MSPs). In a minor update the ProductVersion changes. It's perhaps easier to think of a small update as a hotfix or QFE and a minor update as a service pack or rollup patches. The new features for patch sequencing, patch uninstall, and delta compression are tailored for small and minor updates. Note that these features are only applicable to the use of patches. Using a new MSI package as the delivery vehicle for the update is possible, but it doesn’t benefit from the sequencing, uninstall, and delta compression features.

Host: Rahul (Microsoft)
Q: will we also get an update to the MSI platform SDK?
A: We will be releasing updated documentation, whitepapers and a set of tools with MSI3.0.

Host: Carolyn (Microsoft)
Q: Are there new Properties on MSI 3.0?
A: Yes, there are new properties in MSI 3.0. The set of properties will be made available in the updated Windows Installer documentation. A brief list of new properties are MSIENFORCEUPGRADECOMPONENTRULES, MSIPATCHREMOVE, MsiPatchRemovalList, MsiUISourceResOnly, MsiUIHideCancel, and MsiUIProgressOnly.

Host: Rahul (Microsoft)
Q: Would the MSI team specifically recommend or recommend against the use of drive letters as the abstraction to MSI source packages for auto-repair (e.g. Z:\ is mapped to your nearest share)?
A: We do not have specific recommendations. It is a decision you have to make based on your requirements and environment. Drive letters provide you with the flexibility of changing the sourcepath

Host: Rahul (Microsoft)
A: Simply by changing the drive mapping without having to additionally manipulate the sourcelist. However, with drive letters you have to be more careful about security if someone decides to spoof the drive letter mapping. Further, if you use drive letters, you must also make sure that the drive mapping always occurs before any MSI operations are triggered.

Host: Carolyn (Microsoft)
Q: What tools are available for source list management in MSI 2.x and MSI 3.x?
A: There was limited support in MSI 2.x for source list management. What was supported was a small set of source list API. This has been expanded in MSI 3.0 ton include full source list management and configuration through the API set. The API set is also fully-scriptable. The website https://www.desktopengineer.com provided some source list management utilities for administrators.

Host: OmSharma (Microsoft)
Q: Does MSI 3.0 provide any improvements or help correct any limitations of software installation via Active Directory Group Policy?
A: The MSI30 release is geared to improvements in application servicing. There are no specific features in the MSI30 release to overcome existing limitations of software install via AD/GP/IntelliMirror.

Host: Hem (Microsoft)
Q: What’s new for security settings in MSI 3.0? Is it possible to set .NET Assembly Securities?
A: There is nothing new for security settings in MSI 3.0. There is no native support for setting .NET Assembly Securities. You would have to use custom actions.

Host: Rahul (Microsoft)
Q: Rahul - could you please clarify how a spoof could be affected and protected against (e.g. signing packages/software restriction policies??)?
A: I assume you are referring to spoofing of the package itself. On Windows XP and Windows Server 2003, MSI makes use of Software Restriction Policies.

Host: Rahul (Microsoft)
A: Policies can be set to disallow packages based on their location, signing or hash. Further, policies can also be set to restrict installation from URLs based on internet zones.

Host: OmSharma (Microsoft)
Q: How will the end user initiate removal of a patch--do all patches show up in ARP?
A: On Windows XP/SP2 MSP patches to MSI based products will be displayed in the Add/Remove Control Panel. Note that the default ARP view will not display patches. A checkbox close to the upper left "Display updates" should be set in order to display OS and application updates.

Host: OmSharma (Microsoft)
A: The soon to be posted RC1 release for MSI30 requires explicit opt-in from the MSP patch author in order to mark the patch to be considered for removal. Without this explicit author opt-in, patches will be displayed in ARP but will not be uninstallable.

Host: OmSharma (Microsoft)
A: MSI3.0 also provides command line switches for patch uninstall. This can be used on XP/SP2 and other platforms that are supported by the MSI30 release.

Host: Carolyn (Microsoft)
Q: How does the temporary source list work for patching via removable media?
A: Patches don't have a temporary source list. When you apply a patch, the location of the patch will be registered in the source list -- this is the same for media as well. The source list API will allow you to edit the registered source list for a patch after install to add additional source locations or to possibly modify existing media information. (For example, you decide to provide a DVD for all media for your applications to laptop users for situations where they may be disconnected from the network and need a source location. You can use the API to register the DVD media as the source media.)

Host: OmSharma (Microsoft)
Q: Will the Win2K Add/Remove Programs applet show and allow removal of MSI 3.0 patches, like on WinXP SP2?
A: We are evaluating modifications to ARP on future Win2K service packs releases to provide SP2 like functionality for patch display and uninstall. Patches can still be removed using MSI30 command line options.

Host: OmSharma (Microsoft)
Q: The MSI team will be posting the MSI30/RC1 release later today. The release will be available to all our Beta testers in the next few hours.
A: If you are not a beta tester and want to enroll in the MSI30 beta program we are still accepting a few select nominations - go to www.betaplace.com, use guestID MSI30 and complete the nomination survey.

Host: OmSharma (Microsoft)
A: The next MSI30 chat will be on May 11, 2004 and we will announce it to the newsgroups.

Host: Hem (Microsoft)
Q: Can patchwiz detect changes in the contents of a file to be patched or does it ignore if the file size is the same? It seems to check file size first then ignore if same as original.
A: PatchWiz doesn't ignore the file if the sizes are same, it does detect the changes in the file contents.

Host: OmSharma (Microsoft)
Q: Will that chat on May 11 be public or private? And will there be another general MSI chat?
A: The May 11 chat will be public. We plan to keep having MSI chats every month - second Tuesday. And yes, we will have another general MSI chat soon.

Moderator: Eric_S (Microsoft)
Thanks for joining us today and thanks for the questions. It's time for us to go now. If we couldn't get to your question, please post it in one of the following newsgroups: news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.platformsdk.msi for developer questions, and news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.msi for end-user/administrator questions.

Moderator: Eric_S (Microsoft)
Thanks everyone and we'll see you next time!

Related newsgroups: for developer questions, and for end-user/administrator questions.

For further information on this topic please visit the following:

Newsgroups: microsoft.public.platformsdk.msi

VB .NET Transcripts: Read the archive of past MSI chats.

Website: Visit the Management Technologies Community Center site.

Website: Visit the Microsoft Windows Installer site.

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