Engineering POV
To date, this blog has focused on the engineering specifics of what we've done with the IE product. From our point of view, it's been a useful forum both for talking and listening. Looking at the comments, we can understand what makes sense to readers and where we need to be clearer.
At the same time, we've seen many questions about broader topics, like IE6, HTML5 and other standards, or benchmarking. With IE8's release and Windows 7's "sign-off," now is a good time to add another kind of blog post. We want to use these posts to share our Engineering Point of View about broader topics and see feedback on them ahead of the next release.
Why? For many web technology questions, finding many passionate and often contradictory opinions is easy. For example, just on the topic of video codecs within HTML5 (much less the rest of the spec), finding strong language from smart people disagreeing with each other is easy. This blog is from the IE engineering team, and everything we write here continues to be from the “Engineering Point of View.” We simply want to be clearer about what we’re thinking and what we balance as we build and service IE.
Your comments are always welcome. We read all the comments on this blog (and many of the posts and comments on many other blogs). We'll also keep posting and reading comments on specifics, like How to make IE open tabs faster and How to log into two webmail accounts at the same time. Comments about other posts you’d like to see are also always welcome.
Thanks –
Dean Hachamovitch
General Manager
Comments
Anonymous
August 10, 2009
I am just curious why Microsoft is constantly changing, re-arranging, re-naming and basically totally re-working so many features of Internet Explorer? You take buttons which have always been on IE and remove them or relocate them, actually making it more inconvenient than it is convenient. You change the names of toolbars, make it even harder to find and make changes for customization. Improving the way IE functions is one thing, changing everything about it is another. Example: Why is the Links Bar now called the Favorites Bar? What exactly has that done to improve it? What exactly does all that do to make IE better?Anonymous
August 10, 2009
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August 10, 2009
Gérard, these aren't comments. They're rants. My guess is that they're reading and ignoring. What you document on your website matters much less than what you take to the CSS WG. That's where there's a test suite, and that's where they're taking feedback on their implementation.Anonymous
August 10, 2009
The only thing I care about is more rapid adoption of the solid parts of newly emerging standards such as CSS3 and HTML5, and supporting ancient standards like SVG and MathML. If IE was up to date with Mozilla and Safari in terms of standards support, well, that would be the best thing in the world for a web developer.Anonymous
August 10, 2009
I have a question, hopefully it won't offend you, but when do you see IE 8's enterprise installer going to be ready and available for companies to push to their users? We currently as a company refuse to support IE 8 100% until that becomes available to us to push to our users within the company. From what I have been told from my supervisor, this has yet to be released and it gets getting pushed back month after month. What exactly is the hold up?Anonymous
August 10, 2009
@mogden: yeah, because so many people really use MathML and care. HTML5 is ridiculously under construction that supporting it is meaningless.Anonymous
August 10, 2009
@ cpradio- Download IEAk 8 (Internet Explorer Administration Kit for IE 8) is already out. You can create an enterprise installer to distribute through your favoite automated deployment SMS, SCCM, Zen ect. I have created and am testing a deployment for my employer. You can preconfigure almost every option in IE if you wish.Anonymous
August 10, 2009
@Gérard Talbot for 424856, an update in few months ago fixed the problem in my pc.Anonymous
August 10, 2009
@Gérard Talbot > Every single post in IE blog stating that IE 8 uses by default the best web standards IE rendering engine has been forcing the compatibility view. A blatant incoherence, contradiction. EricLaw answered in previous post http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2009/07/28/internet-explorer-july-out-of-band-cumulative-security-update.aspx#9859283Anonymous
August 10, 2009
@wai, > EricLaw answered in previous post It's still a blatant inconsequence/negligence/contradiction as far as IE 8 and Microsoft are involved that has been going on for months now. "compatibility issues in IE8 Standards Mode. Most of these occur when sites expect legacy behavior that no longer exists in IE8 Standards Mode. Upgrading your site to run in IE8 Standards Mode is the best option in the long run (...) SOLUTION: Ensure your markup is well-formed and valid. " 2009/03/12/site-compatibility-and-ie8.aspx Microsoft can not seriously suggest/recommend to others to fix their markup code when microsoft has not been doing it in the last 12 years in all of its microsoft-controlled websites (including ones on web authoring, tutorials, etc like MSDN; newly created webpages as well) without running into serious credibility problem. This is a blatant wide-scale contradiction. There is (never was) no excuse for that. Gérard TalbotAnonymous
August 10, 2009
I would like to second @mogden's comment, particularly regarding support for SVG and MathML. Vector graphics have broad applicability that's stifled by the lack of support for common standards; and mathematical notation, while admittedly a bit of a niche requirement from some points of view, is so fundamental to the communication of scientific knowledge that it deserves native support from mainstream browsers. I would welcome some explanation of Microsoft's thoughts on implementing support for SVG and MathML; even if the indication is negative. That would at least save us from hoping only to have those hopes dashed, again.Anonymous
August 10, 2009
"We'll also keep posting and reading comments on specifics, like How to make IE open tabs faster and How to log into two webmail accounts at the same time." Maybe I got that wrong, but comments for both posts are closed. (That said, I could post a suggestion via the Email link up there, and got an answer.)Anonymous
August 10, 2009
I think MathML is a niche, and if it is "fundamental to the communication of scientific knowledge", I'm sure those who need it will simply grab themselves Firefox. I don't think it's worth implementing in IE 9, when other things like SVG, HTML5 and CSS 3 are clearly in more demand.Anonymous
August 10, 2009
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August 11, 2009
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August 11, 2009
Hi, What is the engineering point of view when it comes to Video codes? Is one, or the other, technically harder to implement? What's your take on existing ActiveX controls that simulate the <video> tag? Would you actually implement this within the browser, or using COM or deferring to Windows Media Player? Thanks, AnandAnonymous
August 11, 2009
@cpradio: in addition to the availability of the IEAK as Tom mentioned, we will also make Internet Explorer 8 available via WSUS (Windows Server Update Services) starting on August 25th. See my post from 6/29 for some additional details: http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2009/06/29/it-professionals-prepare-for-internet-explorer-8-availability-via-windows-server-update-services-wsus-in-august-2009.aspxAnonymous
August 11, 2009
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August 11, 2009
@cpradio: For more information on the IEAK8 and also a case study of customizing, managing and deploying IE8, please refer to the following blog posts: http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/09/22/the-ie8-ieak.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2009/03/18/improving-the-education-experience-with-internet-explorer-8.aspx Thanks, JatinderAnonymous
August 11, 2009
@ broader topics > Why is the IE7/IE8 UI so horribly un-customizable? Why can't I hide the tab bar if only 1 tab is open? Why does the command bar flow backwards? Why does dragging the favorites bar to the tab bar throw everything out of place? Why can't I close the last tab in IE? (...)...lots of questions...(...) > The IE team is well aware that the > community is not happy with the IE > UI and the IE usability. Broader topics, IE Team closed bug 363573: Poor Interface connect.microsoft.com/IE/feedback/ViewFeedback.aspx?FeedbackID=363573 and closed bug 331901: User interface = poorly designed connect.microsoft.com/IE/feedback/ViewFeedback.aspx?FeedbackID=331901 Ability to customize the UI has been covered by some parts of UAAG technical recommendation. In any case, it must be said that bug 460283 : Reorganize IE's user interface layout connect.microsoft.com/IE/feedback/ViewFeedback.aspx?FeedbackID=460283 is still active. regards, GérardAnonymous
August 12, 2009
That post from jatinder was very helpfull.Anonymous
August 12, 2009
I think there's some irony in that Broader Topics and Fred are complaining about opposite things (one wants a complete UI rehaul, the other wants no UI changes at all).Anonymous
August 23, 2009
IE 8 doesn't work on my XP computer, and now I can't reinstall an earlier version of IE. Why do you keep making poorly-performing software?Anonymous
August 23, 2009
James, rather than whining helplessly, why not explain specifically how "IE8 doesn't work" on your computer? Since it clearly works for 10s of millions of people, I'm sure there's a way to make it work for you (you probably have a buggy browser addon, easily fixed). When you uninstall IE8 using the control panel, your old IE is automatically restored.