Standards and CSS in IE

Artikel
07/29/2005

I’m very happy that we’ve shipped IE 7 beta 1. I wanted to make it clear
that we know Beta 1 makes little progress for web developers in improving
our standards support, particularly in our CSS implementation. I feel badly
about this, but we have been focused on how to get the most done overall for
IE7, so due to our lead time for locking down beta releases and ramping up
our team, we could not get a whole lot done in the platform in beta 1.
However, I know this will be better in Beta 2 – and I want to share how we
are placing our priorities in IE.

In the web platform team that I lead, our top priority is (and will
likely always be) security – not just mechanical “fix buffer overruns” type
stuff, but innovative stuff like the anti-phishing work and low-rights IE.
For IE7 in particular, our next major priority is removing the biggest
causes of difficulty for web developers. To that end, we’ve dug through a
lot of sites detailing IE bugs that cause pain for web developers, like
PositionIsEverything and Quirksmode, and categorized and investigated those
issues; we’ve taken feedback from you directly (yes, we do read the
responses to our blog posts) on what bugs affect you the most and what
features you’d most like to see, and we’ve planned out what we can and can’t
do in IE7.

In IE7, we will fix as many of the worst bugs that web developers hit as
we can, and we will add the critical most-requested features from the
standards as well. Though you won’t see (most of) these until Beta 2, we
have already fixed the following bugs from
PositionIsEverything and
Quirksmode:

Peekaboo bug
Guillotine bug
Duplicate Character bug
Border Chaos
No Scroll bug
3 Pixel Text Jog
Magic Creeping Text bug
Bottom Margin bug on Hover
Losing the ability to highlight text under the top border
IE/Win Line-height bug
Double Float Margin Bug
Quirky Percentages in IE
Duplicate indent
Moving viewport scrollbar outside HTML borders
1 px border style
Disappearing List-background
Fix width:auto

In addition we’ve added support for the following

HTML 4.01 ABBR tag
Improved (though not yet perfect) <object> fallback
CSS 2.1 Selector support (child, adjacent, attribute, first-child
etc.)
CSS 2.1 Fixed positioning
Alpha channel in PNG images
Fix :hover on all elements
Background-attachment: fixed on all elements not just body

I want to be clear that our intent is to build a platform that fully
complies with the appropriate web standards, in particular CSS 2 ( 2.1, once
it’s been Recommended). I think we will make a lot of progress against that
in IE7 through our goal of removing the worst painful bugs that make our
platform difficult to use for web developers.

In that vein, I’ve seen a lot of comments asking if we will pass the
Acid2 browser test
published by the Web Standards
Project when IE7 ships. I’ll go ahead and relieve the suspense by
saying we will not pass this test when IE7 ships. The
original Acid Test tested only the CSS 1 box model, and actually became
part of the W3C CSS1 Test Suite since it was a fairly narrow test – but the
Acid 2 Test covers a wide set of functionality and standards, not just from
CSS2.1 and HTML 4.01, selected by the authors as a “wish list” of features
they’d like to have. It’s pointedly not a compliance test (from the Test
Guide: “Acid2 does not guarantee conformance with any specification”). As a
wish list, it is really important and useful to my team, but it isn’t even
intended, in my understanding, as our priority list for IE7.

We fully recognize that IE is behind the game today in CSS support.
We’ve dug through the Acid 2 Test and analyzed IE’s problems with the test
in some great detail, and we’ve made sure the bugs and features are on our
list - however, there are some fairly large and difficult features to
implement, and they will not all sort to the top of the stack in IE7. I
believe we are doing a much better service to web developers out there in
IE7 by fixing our known bang-your-head-on-the-desk bugs and usability
problems first, and prioritizing the most commonly-requested features based
on all the feedback we've had.

I do want to be clear that I believe the Web Standards Project and my
team has a common goal of making the lives of web developers better by
improving standards support, and I’m excited that we’re
working together to that end.

- Chris Wilson

Comments

Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I hope that you'll retain font embedding even if you're shooting for CSS 2.1 compliance.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Sounds great!
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Out of curiosity (since I'm not familiar with the bug names you list), is something going to be done about the layering of DHTML popups over combo controls and the like. I'm sure you've seen it -- the controls in question live permanently in a layer above the pop-up, making for poor co-existance between DHTML menus and forms.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
@Jim

Yes, background-attachement: fixed was the last thing we were aware of. If you guys know of anything else missing form CSS1 please post it here.

Thanks
-- Markus
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Very encouraging.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Actually, Jim, I don't think I've ever seen a specificity problem with lists. If you can find an example, we can take a look.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I like those lists. No, I really like those lists. I hope they get bigger before beta 2.

"In that vein, I’ve seen a lot of comments asking if we will pass the Acid2 browser test published by the Web Standards Project when IE7 ships. [....] As a wish list, it is really important and useful to my team, but it isn’t even intended, in my understanding, as our priority list for IE7."

I think most, if not all, web developers won't have a problem with this. Recent Firefox nightlies don't render it right, so I don't honestly expect IE 7 to render it completely correct.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I would like to note, that I would like to see this in IE. The autoscroll image http://tinypic.com/9kxw83.png looks terrible, do you really think that looks like a final product? Also maybe some form of a download manager, or more than 2 downloads at once implemented? Some users live in a broadband world where you can handle more than 2 downloads!
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Next time I run across the list specificity problem, I'll whip up a test case.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
What about HTML q element? It should be very easy to support that.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
This post just made me smile, Chris. It really did. :)
A big thank you to you and your team for the work you folks are putting in. Keep the momentum going!
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Great news, and I like that you intend to keep up with your efforts with CSS 2.1!

This article would be hilarious to read the comments to if it was posted on Slashdot.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
"I do want to remind you guys, though, that IE won't be forgiven so easily."

Well, lets be honest. Most of the people making the most noise will >never< forgive MS simply because it >is< MS. Their whole personal self image is defined by how rebellious they are and how they can read /. and "stick it to the corporations!" by pirating movies and complaining about MS.

MS could ship perfect CSS2 support and they would complain it isn't Firefox "bug compatible", that it doesn't retro-install into Windows 3.1. For an encore they would complain that because a fully compliant browser is in Windows that they need to fire up the whole monopoly machinery again because they can't compete anymore on features.

Jealous hatred never ends.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
> Yes, background-attachement: fixed was the last
> thing we were aware of. If you guys know of
> anything else missing form CSS1 please post it
> here.
>
> Thanks
> -- Markus

Definately. font-weight is not correct when it is set to 600.

http://www.quirksmode.org/css/tests/iewin_fontweight.html
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
> One thing that the <object> element type
> doesn't really address is how to signal to the
> user that a fallback has been used.

No, you can try something like this:

<object type="image/svg+xml" data="example.svg">
<p>You are not viewing SVG</p>
<object type="image/png" data="example.png">
<p>You can't view image</p>
</object>
</object>
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
And also, "blink" in text-decoration is not currently supported (I guess it should be in CSS1, right).
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
i am a end user and if this lack in anyway of innovation then you will lose. it is a fact.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Loud applause

Chris! Thank you so much for that down-to-earth and informative blog post.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
This is great news; thanks for posting and for working on those CSS bugs.

Is there any hope of IE7 supporting the application/xml+xhtml and application/xml+xslt media types?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Nanobot, minghong: Doh! I can't believe I've never thought of (or seen) that before! Thanks.

> "blink" in text-decoration is not currently supported

Is that really a bad thing? ;) It's an optional part of the specs anyway.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
> Is there any hope of IE7 supporting the application/xml+xhtml and application/xml+xslt media types?

I'd guess XHTML support is very unlikely - it won't affect as many people as HTML/CSS/DOM/HTTP updates, and it's a bigger job than many people realise. It's not simply a case of adding a media type to a list and failing on malformed documents. There are changes to the DOM, changes to CSS, etc that also have to be added.

On the off-chance you guys are considering it - please don't. Anne van Kesteren's suggestion for an Internet Explorer that can follow the specs 100% and still render old websites with quirks is a great idea, and I hope you guys will consider it for Internet Explorer 8 - implementing a buggy application/xhtml+xml will ruin any chance of it working though.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Today, Chris Wilson spilled the beans I've been wanting to spill for awhile --&nbsp; The majority of...
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
The Acid2 test is also an ERROR checking test. To see how well a browser deals with malformed HTML/CSS in strict mode. Not handling errors correctly can also cause huge problems on web pages. The Acid2 test is just some of the errors that could occur. As it is now, I think only Safari (webkit) tip of the tree passes Acid2 now. (Well, and KHTML).
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
>MS could ship perfect CSS2 support and they would complain it isn't Firefox "bug compatible", that it doesn't retro-install into Windows 3.1.

Soulhuntre, I have no doubt that some people would hate Microsoft even if it went open source, implemented every webstandard perfectly, fixed every security flaw and stbility problem in windows, and bought them a car. Still, give them a little more credit than that.

They wouldn't want IE to conform to Firefox bugs. If anything, they'd just find something else to legitimately complain about. Or perhaps they'd try to fix more bugs in Firefox and then complain that IE doesn't do that properly (nevermind that Firefox didn't either, a week ago).

As for Windows 3.1, they wouldn't care, because anyone who hates Microsoft that much is running Linux or OS X.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
From css1, a little thing come to mind: font-size inheritance in tables.

Also, support for the keyword 'inherit'.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
> The Acid2 test is also an ERROR checking test. To see how well a browser deals with malformed HTML/CSS in strict mode.

It contains CSS errors to determine if a browser follows the error handling defined by the CSS specifications. It doesn't contain HTML errors, because there is no defined error handling for HTML, so there's nothing to check.

> As it is now, I think only Safari (webkit) tip of the tree passes Acid2 now. (Well, and KHTML).

The latest iCab beta does as well.

> Soulhuntre, I have no doubt that some people would hate Microsoft even if it went open source, implemented every webstandard perfectly, fixed every security flaw and stbility problem in windows, and bought them a car.

Bear in mind that once upon a time, IBM were just as bad as Microsoft ever was, but IBM have pretty much redeemed themselves and are now the "good guys". They've done a lot less to earn their credibility than you are saying Microsoft would have to do.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
This is certainly good to see. Seems you've addressed the most important issues.

Main things left over from my wish list:
- support for min-height/min-width (and correspondingly: height/width, which currently seem to act as min-height/min-width should)

- support for :before and :after selectors, especially in combination with the "content" property (which may already be covered in the item "CSS 2.1 Selector support")

The progress you have already made goes a long way to resolving my IE headaches. If the above points make it in, too, I'll be a very happy camper indeed.

Thanks for finally giving some details in addressing the concerns we've expressed here over the past few months.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Will overflow in <tbody> be supported?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
If you have been wondering what IE7 will do for web developers then take a look at Chris Wilson's post...
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
How about pixel font resizing? Whenever a font size is specified in pixels, it won't resize in IE6. Is this fixed in IE7? I surely hope so!

I am really happy with this post and it really shows that you guys are ready to commit! ;)
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Two things that really annoy me on MSIE:
1) If you click on a label of a checkbox, radio button or the like this should be treated like a click on the checkbox itself.
2) Dropdown menus (select tags) are always on top, you cannot make anything appear above them. (Yes I know, because they use native widgets, but that´s a poor explanation!)
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
> Jim, it has an HTML comment error.

> That couldn't be more wrong, Acid2 does contain HTML errors checks, at least for HTML comments-handling errors

Guys, check it again. That's not an error. The idea is that broken user-agents will think ERROR is part of the content, thus displaying the text ERROR. Conformant user-agents will understand that ERROR is part of the comment and will not display it. It's not an error in the markup, the text ERROR is there to show when a user-agent has made a parsing error.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
iCab
Safari
Konqueror

All have passed Acid2 if you the latest builds.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
One thing hasn’t mentioned too much is the conflictive zooming strategy. There are two type of conflicts: 1) For IE itself. IE’s Text Size is one kind of zooming function, which works for some sites, but does not work on others, such as the site: http://www.quirksmode.org/ , no effect when you change the Text Size. The other function is DHTML style.zoom function. Also it works for some sites but does not work “properly” on others due to complicated layout. That makes me difficult to supply a simple Ctrl+ ‘+’ and Ctrl+’-‘ for the zooming function in our tabbed browser.
2) This zooming difference between different browsers, such as IE and FireFox. NO STANDARD. You can try by using Ctrl+MouseWheelScroll.
Because the screen resolution varies a lot, some site’s text is too small to read. How can we supply a simple and unified way let user to use?

Also, in DHTML style.zoom, the text is not rendered properly.

Mike J
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Great news! Thanks for keeping us up to speed.

> 1) If you click on a label of a checkbox, radio
> button or the like this should be treated like
> a click on the checkbox itself.

In my universe, this works fine in IE6 if you use an ID attribute on the form control and an identical value for the FOR attribute on the label.

> I will be banning all MSIE versions below 7
> as soon as 7 is released and making my site
> both fully XHTML 1.1 and work with full AAA
> accessabilities standards in mind.

Please keep in mind:

1) Many corporate users are stuck with older versions because IT departments can be very conservative (who knows what intranet apps the new version might not work in, plus non-standard configs are a pain to support).

2) You better believe Grandma will see few reasons to upgrade to IE7. IE7 will probably see a slow uptake similar to IE6's.

3) Only WinXP SP2 and Vista users will even have the option of installing IE7. There are still many people (especially business users) on Win2K, and even some people using Win9x.

"Accessibility" for people using special browsers (screen readers, mobile devices) at the expense of millions of IE5.x and IE6 users is not very good accessibility.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Also...

To the person requesting more then two downloads being allowed at once... MS ~IS~ following a standard (which is the HTTP standard) which states that there should not be more then two active connections at once to any given server.

Paste this in to a file with a REG extension to overcome the two file download limit (but be aware that this does not follow the HTTP standard...

REGEDIT4

[HKEY_CURRENT_USERSoftwareMicrosoftWindowsCurrentVersionInternet Settings]
"MaxConnectionsPer1_0Server"=dword:00000020
"MaxConnectionsPerServer"=dword:00000010
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
By the way, is there any chance that the version of MSHTML in IE 7 will generate strict correct code? Quotes on attributes, lower-case tags, well-formedness etc etc?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
>> we’ve planned out what we can and can’t do in IE7.

Any chance of getting a list of things you can't do then?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Chris Wilson is talking about which CSS bugs Microsoft are planning to fix for IE7 beta 2.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Excellent news! I've updated my post to reflect this:

http://kurafire.net/log/archive/2005/07/28/ie7-beta-1-release

Chris & IE Team:
I am wondering, with the quirky percentages, are you talking about the fact that IE can't divide by 2? Case: using a background image on the body to 'fake' a full-height column layout, but having it be 1 pixel off depending on the size of the scrollbar (17px makes it off, 18 doesn't, etc.)

Also, are you guys aware of this issue:
http://kurafire.net/log/archive/2005/06/27/floating-labels-ie6?highlight=ie

I've had IE crash on text resizes for a while, but then after a restart we couldn't reproduce it. It was narrowed down to left-floated labels with a specific width, and a certain order of CSS properties. This order, however, I can't reproduce. :(
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I love you guys! If I had the money I'd come over to the US and kiss your feet!
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Good to see such a candid post on what's going on.

A comment though: The requirement to have the OS verified and SP2/winXP is a bit rich: this sort of thing reenforces microsoft as the "big bad ogre". There is no reason at all that IE couldn't be separate from the OS (it's called good software engineering), and certainly shouldn't be forcing users to run validation routines for other software products (i.e. the operating system) just to install. There are no other browsers that enforce this.

On a similar note: with MSN messenger can you make it so that IE being online won't affect anything but web browsing? I would like to be able to have IE in offline mode while still able to use MSN messenger (this prevents other applications popping up URLs)..

Those things aside: keep up the posting on how things are progressing..
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Thanks for the update Chris. This is what we needed to hear. I can't wait for Beta 2 now.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
First thing: can we get some closure as to the support for :before and :after and the content property in CSS? I don't remember if it's CSS 2.0 or 2.1 or 2.01 or 2.3.75.4.6.7.6, but it's something absolutely required to make quality sites these days. Microsoft has always been the leader as far as dynamic content on websites, so don't skimp on this one.

Aside from that, I'd like to hear more information about JScript. I know it's not strictly in the IE team's court, but it is something tightly integrated with IE.
I have had problems recently with JScript, specifically in the area of functions. I don't know the terminology exactly, or even what is going wrong, but there is something really wrong with the 'var x = new Function() {...}' ...functionality. It just doesn't work.

Another thing about JScript: I seem to remember that in the past, if a JScript application was taking too long to do something, as if it was stuck in heavy recursion or an infinite loop, it would notify the user and ask if the script should stop running. This seems to still work for infinite loops, but not always for recursive functions. No idea how to fix that, but it's something that should be. With my test code, the latest versions of Firefox, Opera, and IE all crash/freeze, and I assume other ECMAScript-compatible browsers will also.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Well this is certainly odd. One day everyone could cut your throats, and the next they're kissing your feet. And yes, I have to say, reading this post really made me cheer. Wouldn't have hurt to announce it earlier though. ;)

The only thing I really miss in that list is min/max-width/height. Is it too late in the game to add this to the list?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
This is great news. Hopefully we can look forward to a swift 7.5 (or 8?) release with even further improved standards support.

http://naylog.blogspot.com/2005/07/many-rendering-bugs-fixed-for-ie7-beta.html
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Someone mentioned specificity bugs in CSS; from my memory it has to do with wrong calculation of specificity on elements with pseudo-classes (like :hover).
Also the following is broken:
element.class1.class2 { }
this will get applied to elements that have only class2 set, the class1 rule is ignored. This is probably a leftover from the original CSS1 implementation where only one class could be defined on an element.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Congratulations guys!

Im ashamed to admit that the first page i visited after loading the beta was positioniseverything. I was happy to see most of the bugs exposed on this site were fixed.

Thanks for the transparent png support...

Thanks for the :hover selectors...

Keep up the good work guys. Looking forward to the full release, although it will be difficult to wean me off of Firefox by then.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
in reply to the person hoping for font sizes to resize using a fixed dimension (px). that i and many other people consider to be a bug. pixels are fixed dimensions and so shouldnt scale, if you want a font to resize you should be using a relative dimension such as em.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
what's about supporting selectors like input[type="submit"]? Yes there are more important bugs out there that are waiting to be corrected, but this could be a good (solved) issue.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
> in particular CSS 2 ( 2.1, once it’s been Recommended)

CSS 2.1 is recommended. See http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1111107793&count=1
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
As for CSS2.0 vs 2.1 please read: http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1111107793&count=1
CSS2.1 is CR; it is implied that vendors who implement CSS2 should follow the 2.1 specifications.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
All HTML related here, but what's about JavaScript.

Great could be better JavaScript performance. Especially I would like to see if you the memory leaks in your engine. And please make arrays and object creation and fill faster. In my Firefox this runs with doubled performance. And IE seems to get slower with the growth of the javascript array. Firefox does not have this problem.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
It is great that you are now supporting :hover correctly. Are you also planning to support :active and :focus (and maybe even :disabled from CSS3)? Using the CSS3 pseudo classes allows most of the UI handling to be moved from js to css where it belongs.

It would also be nice if you fixed your get/set/hasAttribute bugs in DOM but I guess that might be a bit too complicated at the current stage.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Chris Wilson beklager i IEblog at IE7 beta 1 viser så dårlig fremgang i sin CSS-støtte, men lover at dette vil bli mye bedre i IE7 beta 2.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
w00t!

It's be a pain having to support another version of IE, but the fact that it is getting better standards support will make that soooo much easier. Thank you very much.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
This looks really promising guys! One thing that concerns me is :hover on all elements. I've mentioned this in a previous post about IE downloading css background-image's during each hover causing images to flicker. Can you make sure this is fixed? Check this link for details:
http://www.fivesevensix.com/studies/ie6flicker/
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
About the guillotine bug.

You may have fixed the bug between releasing the beta and posting here in the IE blog, I wouldn't know. But if you meant that the guillotine bug is fixed in the current beta, you're wrong.

As Dave Shea points out in his blog here: http://mezzoblue.com/archives/2005/07/28/ie7_css_upda/ the beta doesn't fix it. See the screenshots:
IE6: http://www.mezzoblue.com/i/articles/28july2005-guillotine-ie6.png
IE7: http://www.mezzoblue.com/i/articles/28july2005-guillotine-ie7.png
Proper: http://www.mezzoblue.com/i/articles/28july2005-guillotine-proper.png

But then again, you've hopefully already fixed this. :)
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
The only negative opinion I have about this post is that it was a long time coming. A perfect summary and a great answer to most of my questions as a web developer. Good work!

I hope for continuous follow-ups as you fix more bugs and address more issues, and I hope that the end result is that when IE7 ships and falls for "html > x" selectors instead of "* html x" ones, it will render the rest of the page (or at least a great deal) similar to the other browsers. And if it doesn't, I hope that conditional comments will work ;).
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
The big news of the week is, of course, that Windows Vista Beta 1 has been released. In addition, IE7 Beta 1 was released as well. While I haven't installed either yet, this is definitely good news on the road...
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Hooray! Thanks for delivering :D And as has been said above - keep it going!
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
it's great that you support alpha transparency PNG pictues, but you should not forget to think about a way how webdesigners can distinguish between IE7 and older versions. right now i'm using the "html > x" selector since every browser out there who supports alpha transparency PNG pictues also supports this selector. example:

body p {
background-image: image.gif;
}

body > p {
background-image: image.png;
}
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Will IE7 have a text zoom feature like Firefox's?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Well.. this looks promising. :) Now I only have to update my pages like this:



But this will only happen if max-width and min-width will be supported in IE7. Those two little thingies are my major wishes. Fingers crossed! Keep up the good work! :)
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Oddly enough, although I loathe the placement of the menus, toolbars, and address bar in IE7 when running XP, in Vista it actually seems to work -- the elements match better in some sort of vague and indefinable way...
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Wow... Next thing you'll be saying is that Apple are going to be using Intel chips...
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
@flaimo
> right now i'm using the "html > x" selector
> how webdesigners can distinguish between IE7 and older versions

IE already has this functionality. It's called conditional comments.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/author/dhtml/overview/ccomment_ovw.asp
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
How about adding the :last-child pseudo-class as well? I know, I know, it's CSS3, but the selectors-module is already a candidate recommendation and hey, how likely is it that the specs for :last-child will ever change? Not very. It shouldn't be that hard to add, either. I'll live even if you don't add it, but :first-child is quite lonely without :last-child ;)

It would mostly benefit list-based navigation systems, but could, of course, be used for anything.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
This is excellent news.

I'd like to see, at the very least everything in Dean Edwards' IE7 JavaScript in the real IE7.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Oops! Email: d dottt naylor at telia dott com
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Well this sounds great but I honestly have subconscious Twilight Zone music in my ears, this is a lage step for M$ that many of us never thought we would see.

If you pull this off then Kudos to you, I hope they pay you well, then you should get a raise.

I do have one problem with all this: A Eternal IE6. Maybe this has changed and I have missed it... but my last info is that IE7 was earmarked for Longhorn/Vista only. Only The Beta IE 7 would be available for XP and nothing for earlier OSs. That means people whith rather new XP PCs are not gonaa go Vista for a few years, so all the Win 98 (still alot out there) as well as ME, 2K and XP will still be using a Buggy IE6 for years to come. So all these slick improvements in IE 7 will make little difference for us Developers as long as large segments can not use it. We all know IE 5.5 has not yet trully died out, so imagine how long it will take IE6 to die if IE 7 only comes with a whole new OS?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
not sure if this is related to css but are you aware of this bug... http://www.noscope.com/journal/2004/02/horizontal_scrollbar_bug
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I am afraid I can become a devotee of MSIE until it rcognizes and processes of MIME type application/xhtml+xml.

James Pickering
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
>> 1) If you click on a label of a
>> checkbox, radio
>> button or the like this should be
>> treated like
>> a click on the checkbox itself.

> In my universe, this works fine in IE6
> if you use an ID attribute on the form
> control and an identical value for the
> FOR attribute on the label.

Maybe he means <label><input ...> Text</label> ? This should work by HTML Standard, I don't know for IE.

But how about "BUG: The FOR Attribute of the LABEL Object Resets Focus" described at http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;314279
(The title gets the terminology wrong. IE resets the selection in the select element when the select element gets focus via label.)

Will that be fixed?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I'd like to request that a number of CSS properties in relation to tables be added or fixed as well:

* add CSS property border-spacing
* add CSS property empty-cells
* add CSS support for border when applied to COL or COLGROUP
* add CSS property caption-side

There are a few other discrepancies that I've remarked on here: http://www.snook.ca/archives/000167.html
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Chris, an appreciative "thank you thank you thank you" for taking the time to write this. Measurable goals! CSS 2! (I mean, hopefully, 2.1!) Someone pinch me. (Ow.)

I trust Acid2 will be tackled in time, and I appreciate that there's a lot more to this release than just CSS. What you've posted here matters all the same, it really does. Keep it up!
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Looks like I was right, beta 2 is the browser we've all been waiting for. Microsoft has released a list of fixes that will appear in the second beta of Internet Explorer 7. I suspect the backlash after beta 1...
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
It must be said, I find this really really good news !
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Reiterating the request for JPEG2000 support. The ideal case would be that it'll just be another image codec that needs to be added. But if <object> works as image host (since IMG is being deprecated with XHTML2), then this'll be fine, too.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I've waited a long time to hear this.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Please excuse the early morning fuzziness -- or old age creeping in -- I previously wrote .....

"I am afraid I can become a devotee of MSIE until it rcognizes and processes of MIME type application/xhtml+xml."

..... which should read:

"I am afraid I cannot become a devotee of MSIE until it recognizes and displays MIME type application/xhtml+xml documents."
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Yesterday, Chris Wilson announced that the next beta of Internet Explorer 7 will contain many bug fixes...
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
David "W3bbo" R has a point about the display: table-cell, table-column,... stuff.

I've tried playing with it in Firefox and it's really an easy and even intuitive way to display elements (like divs) in a tabular manner.

It would speed up my work tremendous!
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
The installer on XP SP2 gives me "The data area passed to a system call is too small" error after the window validation have been completed
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
:D
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
(Forgot) - any eta on beta 2?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Sounds like a step in the right direction! Great to see the IE team be specific about CSS fixes and support.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
No matter how application/xhtml+xml may be hard to implement, it NEEDS to be added. Programmers have waited long enough and another 4 years or so of waiting for a new IE version to support it would be terrible. Please add full support to XHTML pages in IE7, thanks.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
there will Be support for application/xhtml+xml content (xhtml 1.1) and support for xhtml 1.1 (image maps and ruby notation?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Are there any plans to inmplement SVG support ?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Hey...as others have said, this is an excellent post from a member of the IE team. I'm glad to hear some concrete news on what rendering issues are being fixed, although they don't really impact my sites at the moment.

Something I'm curious about--so it's been said that there is no IE7 going to be released for any OS prior to Windows XP Service Pack 2. How's about giving us just a rendering engine update for IE6 Service Pack 1 on the platforms where it is still supported in some way--like Windows 2000, 98(se) and Windows XP Service Pack 1.

This might be a lot of work for the IE team, but I assure you it would not go unnoticed. Many users just aren't ready to upgrade for a while yet...myself included...

Oh, and if anyone knows--is Windows Vista going to have an option to look and work in the way that "classic" versions of Windows do? I really don't see myself liking, using or even taking advantage of the new look.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Could you tell us something about current CSS workarounds for IE that will break your layout in IE7.

like the HolyHack
* html .aclass {
height: 1px;
}

Should we add rules like
*>html .aclass {
height: auto;
}
to make sure our layout stay working in IE7?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
For IE team:
It is widely known that IE 7 will be available only for XP SP2 and up, because it relies on some security related features of it.
As it is mentioned earlier, rendering improvements on IE 7 will not be significantly advantages for web developers, since this will force IE 6 to remain around for some time (as IE 5.5 currently is).
Question is: is there any possibility (or plan) as for backporting the improvements made for IE 7 (in the fields of (X)HTML and CSS) to a say "IE 6.5"?

I guess many web developers like me would like to have this question cleared out, preferably in its own post.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
There still is something missing from CSS1!

Maybe you didn't mention it, but at least IE6 does not imply a width (or a height) if both "left" and "right" (or "top" and "bottom") values are specified. It would be great to have this in IE7, too.

Oh, and if you could fix the background flicker on hover... that'd be cool :)
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I really doubt that the IE team is going to backport anything. Look at the Lifecycle model posted a while ago. They have to support anything they release with patches and service packs, etc. Why would they release IE7 for Vista and XP, then an "IE 6.5" for others and then do what? IE8 for Vista and XP and nothing else? If 6.5 came out, wouldn't they have to release patches for any security issues in it? If IE7 uses security features of Vista and XP, then there are likely to be more security issues on a 6.5 release.

I don't see it happening. XP has been out for four years this fall and Vista comes out next year, right? Windows 2000 is out of support pretty soon and the other operating systems are out of support. People complain about the IE team moving too slow but then want them to make frankenstein versions of their software for out of support operating systems?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I have a suggestion for IE7. On the Favorites, I'd strongly suggest having a "Sort by Alphabetical" option, as well as possibly a "Most Favorites" feature similar to <a href="http://www.maxthon.com" target="_blank">the Maxthon browser</a>. I'd also, along similar veins, look into optional mouse gestures and, as has been mentioned before, allow browser windows to be closed by double-clicking their title.

Finally, I'd have the toolbar settings be remembered on each launch, as well as stay the same from tab to tab unless otherwise enabled.

Great startup, though, guys! Keep up the good work!
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Excellent news! That second list reads very much like my own wish list, though there's two sets of features I'd still like to see:

1. min-width/max-width and min-height/max-height
2. :before and :after generated content

(I realize that to implement #1 properly means changing the way width behaves, since it currently acts as min-width.)

Any plans for either of these?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Well, I didn&#8217;t get around to downloading IE7&#160;beta&#160;1 yesterday, so I won&#8217;t be able to check it out over the weekend. But it&#8217;s become clear that, from a web developer&#8217;s point of view, all the action is slated for beta ...
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Good news! And will the support of XHTML be improved ?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
The very base of IE is wrong because it doesn't pass the Acid2 test.

Chris Wilson is promising they will work hard to make IE better. I don't believe it. They don't really love their product. Working hard means working day and night, releasing betas every week, not once in a year. If there is something diffuclt to implement - this means the basic part has run out of itself. It is as if trying to make a 3d game out of isometric engine.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
This CSS1 bug has been mentioned at least twice already but I got a test case for it...

"If both top and bottom css properties are set the height should become flexible. Meaning that if top and bottom are set to 5px then the height should be the content height of the parent minus 10px."

Same applies to left and right

http://erik.eae.net/opera/top-right-bottom-left.html

The test case was made for another browser that also has some issues with this. Not as serious as the IE ones ofcourse ;-)
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
If security is a priority, please make the phishing detector NOT communicate to MS!

Also, is there any official place to post suggestions and bugs?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I would love to see a small improvement to be made in the context menu of IE. Don't laugh ... please move the "print" command away from the "refresh" command (or let the user customize the order in the contextmenu).

If I had a dollar for every time I wanted to refresh the page, and by accident pressed the print command I would have been a milionaire.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Chris,

Thank you for posting this update on your plans for CSS in IE7. I and many others have been waiting for a statement like this from Microsoft since IE7 was first announced. Seeing a list of items that will be addressed in IE7 is also very encouraging.

Thank you not only hearing our concerns frustrations, but also working to address them. Before this post, I was very pessimistic about what Microsoft's commitment to improving standards support in IE7. I am now actually excited about IE7 and looking forward to its eventual release. Keep up the good work.

P.S. Add me to the list of people hoping that the min/max-height/width properties can also be added in IE7.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
> If you guys know of anything else missing form CSS1 please post it here.

!important rules are not considered correctly in IE6. Will this be fixed?

Thanks for listening, finally...

Christoph
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
You guys rock! I'm so happy that IE is going through all of these changes. Thanks for posting the update, for the transparency, and for the good intentions.

If you haven't seen this link already, it is a source of some great CSS2 tests to run IE against. Have you considered it?

http://www.hixie.ch/tests/evil/
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Great news on future CSS support in IE7
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
One question. Any good reson why IE 7 won't be availible for Win 2K?

I'd also like to join the "petition" for application/xhtml+xml and XMLHTTPRequest()
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Chris,

#myele
{
position:absolute;
left:20%;
right:20%;
height:200px;
}

will this be possible with IE7? (left+right assignments should imply a width here)
It's very important IMO.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
بالاخره یه خبر مهم برای عاشقان سینه چاک Firefox بی ریخت. یکی نیست بگه آخه این موجود چی داره که اینقدر کاربر پیدا کرده. نمیدونم هیچ کدوم از کسانی که Firefox رو آخر برنامه میدونن تاحالا شده با Opera...
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Just wanted to say thank you for addressing more of the compliance issues.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Internet Explorer 7: Now in beta testing for developers
The first stage of the beta process for Internet...
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Will the z-index issue be fixed for listboxes and drop down menus?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
@Chris
"Dan - partial PNG support? Explain please."

Among the numerous reviews out there, there is mention to these 2 facts:
1. PNG transparency is not correctly displayed when the image is selected.
2. PNG transpareceny is buggily printed.

---

By the way, another "memo": dotted != dashed ... :/
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Sam Riley,

> pixels are fixed dimensions and so shouldnt scale, if you want a font to resize you should be using a relative dimension such as em.

That's a common misconception, px units are not fixed dimensions in the context of CSS, they are relative units. Read the spec:

http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/syndata.html#length-units

James Hancock,

> <a href="..."><table>...</table></a> still doesn't work right.

Yes it does. I pointed out last time you posted that, Internet Explorer does the right thing. Your code is broken, don't blame Internet Explorer.

Chris,

> do you have an example of how !important doesn't work correctly?

IIRC, CSS 1 said that !important rules in user stylesheets were overridden by !important rules in author stylesheets, and later CSS specifications reversed that logic. I don't use !important very often, so I don't know if you ever changed from CSS 1 logic to CSS 2+ logic.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I'm not sure if this is possible, but once IE7 goes RTM, would you guys be thinking of making an update to the IE6 engine to provide 100% CSS 2.0 support as well?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Oh! excellent!
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Well, I'm disappointed to hear that IE 7 won't pass ACID2. However, I genuinely appreciate the candor, tardy though it may be. I also appreciate the honesty it took to say that fixing IE to pass the test would be no small task. I don't agree with the criticisms of the test levied by Chris Wilson, but c'est la vie.

Focusing on what makes developer's lives easier is a great approach, but I'm not entirely convinced it's related to a better browsing experience for non-developers.

In any event, with the ACID2 "litmus test" now comfortably dismissed, a little more formality with respect to exactly which CSS changes (apart from the aforementioned bug fixes) we should expect would be greatly appreciated.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I am glad to hear you are working toward CSS improvements. When the reviews of the first beta came in all the web developers at our shop got very depressed. Not a single pixel changed in the acid2 test.

The time we have to spend making CSS render properly on IE is really disheartening.

IE is a good browser because of the sweat put forth by web developers making sure their creations look good in IE as well as more "standards compliant" browsers.

While you may argue about what validity ACID2 is, in practice other browsers require fewer tweaks to make CSS "work".

Think of the all the developers you will doom to years of tweaks by not improving...
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I hope you fix the follow bug..
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINESOFTWAREMicrosoftInternet Explorer

and that's value, "Build" is "62900.2180"..
You know, Build must be written "2900.2180".
And there is many many version bug in ie6.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Sorry about the serial killer thing. I was just trying to deliver the point. ;)

Here are some issues that I haven't already addressed or I feel need repeating.

Gamma correction in PNGs needs to be supported. It can sometimes be difficult to fit PNG images into the design when the image is slightly darker or lighter than it should be. There are also other issues with the current alphatransparency support that are detailed on many reviews out there.

Supporting the q element properly is an absolute must. I use the q element all the time, and I'm currently forced to remove the quotation marks with CSS and then surround the element with quotation marks in the markup if I need it to work right in Internet Explorer (and then non-CSS browsers who support the q element correctly get two pairs of quotation marks).

The tabindex property needs to be properly supported.

This one isn't as important, but the noscript tag currently isn't supported properly. The contents appear when JavaScript is disabled, but this is not the same as the correct behavior. It should display the contents whenever a script element with an unsupported or disabled language appears before it. But again, this isn't as big of an issue as others.

The value of 0 for the colspan and rowspan attributes needs to be properly supported. This value should cause it to span all columns/rows.

The @import CSS rule currently doesn't work when used with a media type.

At the moment, the grammar for pseudo-classes (and I assume this would also apply to pseduo-elements, none of which are supported in IE 6) is incorrect. Pseduo-classes are currently ignored unless they are the last part of the simple selector. According to the specification, I should be able to do something like a:visited:hover{} or any other combination of any number of pseudo-classes/pseudo-elements, and it should recognize all of them, combined with a logical AND.

Counters should be supported. Firefox will likely support it in 1.5, or else definitely in 2.0. Counters will be very useful.

DO NOT release IE7 without support for CSS table displays and "inherit" for all properties.

Width and height need to be handled correctly. When I say 100px, I mean 100px, not at least 100px.

Support for the outline properties would be nice, too. I believe Firefox will also have this in 1.5, and Opera has had it for a long time.

As for DOM support, all I can say (other than supporting the standard DOM event model, which will keep us from having to write two versions of a lot of our code) is to clean up some of this: <http://nanobox.chipx86.com/browser_support_dom.php>. Internet Explorer's DOM support really isn't tragically bad like the CSS support, but we'd appreciate some tuning up.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
The beta version of Internet Explorer 7, too old? According to GoDaddy... Click for larger and clearer version I might by the standards compliant argument for Beta 1 (as evidenced by this heated thread at IEBlog), but too old? It's...
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Will we see some form of new JavaScript capabilities? I'm particularly curious about getters and setters for all (native and custom) objects. Mozilla has had this functionality for quite some time now, and it is a feature that would be greatly appreciated.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Thank you for this good news. I believe the general consensus here is that we all wish the IE team good skill in coming out with IE 7.

I would just like to add that in working to address standards compliance you currently have a great opportunity to make IE shine. It's certainly worth doubling the manpower of your team to make this happen (and I know adding more talent to the team is within your capabilities).

Once again, good skill on the continuing development.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
That is absolutely splendid guys. I thought you wouldn't have a complete support for CSS 2 and only very little support for CSS 2.1 but you have proven me wrong here.

The fixes you say have already made to IE7 should help me and other developer a lot!

Now I am only starting to wonder: What of you could be looking over att CSS 3? CSS 3 has two very interestings things as I can see it. It has the border-radius which helps making beutiful websites and it has a good way of doing columns which helps sites bringing a newspaper look to their site which ain't really possible today. If you would add those two also then you would certainly has as good support as Firefox 1.5 when that one is released for CSS.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
There is one bug you have missed in that list that I believe is extremely important.

The bug is the flickering and disapearance of background images used on links.

All you have to do to recreate this bug is to use something like this:

a:link {background-image:url(image.gif);}
a:hover {background-image:url(image_over.gif);}

In Internet Explorer this causes the images to disappear completely for relatively long periods. It may also cause the images to flicker.

This bug is even more apparent in IE7 Beta1. All other major browsers are free of this bug.

Otherwise I'm extremely glad you're addressing the other CSS issues. Just add this one to the list as well, thanks.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Chris: here's an example of the IE specificity bug: http://therealcrisp.xs4all.nl/meuk/IE-specificitybug.html

Here's an example of the IE Z-index bug: http://therealcrisp.xs4all.nl/meuk/IE-zindexbug.html

Also the issue with the background-images getting reloaded when changed either through script, by some :hover pseudoclass or a classname swap is a large problem that really needs attention.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Any chance of getting the border conflict resolution algorithm implemented properly for table-* borders? Here's a few hundred test cases that show what I mean:
http://lachy.id.au/dev/css/tests/css21/20050702/
http://lachy.id.au/dev/css/tests/css21/20050703/
http://lachy.id.au/dev/css/tests/css21/20050705/

Note that there's an issue with a few tests in the first set (20050702), which are awaiting a response from the CSSWG to be updated and added to the official test suite. This set is also available as both HTML4 and XHTML1.1.
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-css-testsuite/2005Jul/0004

The second and third set (20050703 and 20050705) need to have HTML4 versions generated for IE to test them.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
IEBlog : Standards and CSS in IE Coming CSS support in IE7 - looks like they'll keep tailing behind. Embarassing for a company of Microsofts stature and size (tags: css browsers Microsoft standards)...
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
A standards-compliant IE7 doesn't help web developers one bit unless Microsoft patches the CSS bugs in IE6. Most companies still use Windows 2000 and see no reason for an XP upgrade, so it would be out of the question to drop pre-IE7 support for any professional website.

Since these CSS bugs are not linked to any of the security enhancements code (hopefully!) it should be quite easy to backport the fixes. If not, something is either very wrong with the IE codebase or Microsoft wilfully refuses to fix their bugs.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Chris H: Why not just disable the SVG plug-in via the manage Add-ons menu option? Wouldn't that test the fallback, without modifying the code?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Jim, if Microsoft does not take say extra 6 months now to add support for XHTML, it will be another 5 years or so before IE 8 comes out. This will make the XHTML spec 10 years old before it is supported by IE. Lack of XHTML support in IE is hurting us all and is holding back development and adoption of new Web technologies such as MathML.

IE 7 can be in beta right up to the release of Vista. If some customers need tabs or RSS or certain CSS fixes right away, they can use the beta versions. This approach worked for Firefox and it will work for IE. Microsoft has always said that they will release products when they are ready. You should release IE when it's support for Web standards is as good or better than Firefox. Until then, we'll use the betas.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
THANKS A LOT. Allthough a Firefox user, knowing that IE7 will support CSS is a great relief. I still think it is a pity that IE7 won't be broadly supported by Windows OS, but, still, that's a very good point - the one all webdesigners have been waiting for.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
"A standards-compliant IE7 doesn't help web developers one bit unless Microsoft patches the CSS bugs in IE6."

Well, we'll just have to spell it out clearly to our visitors: "Either upgrade to Firefox, or if you're on XP/Vista get IE7, or view this website totally muddled up - it's your choice."
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I just wanted to echo a previous comment about using conditional statements in CSS similar to the conditional comments in HTML. Possibly something like
/[[if ie gte 7/
css declarations here
/]]/

This would allow us to target ie7 and up with anything browser specific.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I'm not entirely sure how the CSS spec states that !important should act, but I think there is a bug in the IE implementation, rather than Firefox, Opera, etc.

It seems that IE won't make note of the importance of a property until the declaration has been closed, for example:

p {
background: #fff !important;
color: #000 !important;
background: #000;
color: #fff;
}

While Firefox and Opera will keep the background white and the text black (as these are set to !important) IE will overwrite (or cascade) the two properties with the two below it, setting the background to black and the color to white.

If you split the declaration in to two, for example:

p {
background: #fff !important;
color: #000 !important;
}
p {
background: #000;
color: #fff;
}

Then IE will respect the !important call for the two properties, so the second declaration will not overwrite the first.

I have no idea how IE works under the bonnet, but I expect it is because IE doesn't check for the !important keyword until after a declaration has closed, where as other browsers make a note as they come to it.

I've put together a small example below. You'll see important1.htm and important2.htm are the same in Firefox and Opera, but different in IE 6 (I don't know about IE7 BETA, as I don't have access to it).

http://www.aowl45.dsl.pipex.com/important1.htm

Like I said though, I don't know how the spec defines the !important keyword, so it could be that IE is correct and Firefox and Opera are incorrect.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Visual Studio 2005 (ASP 2.0) is going to support XHTML. This means Microsoft development tools will be capable for producing XHTML Web sites that cannot be properly processed by IE 7.

At the very least, Microsoft should make a statement as to when it plans to support XHTML in IE.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
AndyC, thanks for the tip. I have to be honest and say I hadn't noticed the "Manage Add-ons" option in IE. Was this added with XP SP2, or has it been available for a longer period?

Anyway, thanks for the heads up, I would have thought it would allow the testing of <object> fallback as needed.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Features Request:

1) A better bookmarks manager. Minimally, something that would make sure my bookmarks are upto date. Remove changed address. Maybe tag the bookmarks like del.icio.us

2) Go button in IE 7. Lot of people still use that.

3) Possibaly, some kind of API for the bookmark managers such as http://del.icio.us to have a direct connection with IE. So, people can switch to using del.icio.us instead of the IE bookmark manager.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Wow, compared to what I normally see in here, we have virtual "lovefest" going on..... Are my eyes deceiving me?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Would it be possible to displayed dotted borders as dotted borders? Right now dotted borders are displayed as dashed borders.

"I'm not sure if this is possible, but once IE7 goes RTM, would you guys be thinking of making an update to the IE6 engine to provide 100% CSS 2.0 support as well?"

They are, it is called IE7. :p
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
some bugs I ran into in IE6
- reduced font-size of text inside a <code> element

- IE CSS 'bugs' like:
* html {}
{_property: value;}

- no !important supported

- in addition to Tino Zijdel's element.class1.class2 { } also element#id.class {} and other permutations don't work in IE6

- furthemore I would like to refer to http://www.dithered.com/css_filters/css_only/index.php for a complete list of CSS-constuctions are IE doesn't support

PS elem.setAttribute('style', 'some css') doesn't work in IE6
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
You are so far behind the game. What's the point of trying to catch up when there are good solutions out there that you could slot in for free? I'm sure that you can catch up, but it is worth the money? Why not do something new rather than solving old problems?
Anonymous
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January 01, 2003
Nanobot, you said:

"As for the issue with IE6 not supporting these new CSS features, it doesn't bother me that much. ... if users expect their unsupported browser to work properly in a world of ever evolving technology, they'll have to upgrade (which in this case would require upgrading to a new OS) or what is presently the easier alternative, switching to another brand. In this respect, IE7's release will finally give us a more practical excuse not to cater to IE6's incompetence. It's five-year-old software, it's time to upgrade."

Unfortunately, we will have to cater to IE6's incompetance, because people will not be able to upgrade, and some may not feel comfortable ith, or know about, alternatives. I guess all we can do on our sites is to promote those alternatives and hope that people move away from IE.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
As one of the participants in the W3C MathML working group, Microsoft should add MathML support to IE. In other words, besides third-party add-ons that render MathML, IE should have its own MathML support.

It's a really good thing you're fixing all those bugs and incompatibilities in IE, and making security improvements, but don't forget new features :)
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Thanks for the CSS enhancements Chris !
I don't know if are already aware of this bug, but it should be quickly fixed:
When clicking on the label of a select element, the first element contained in it is selected. This is not very important, but using this bug you can even select optgroup elements !

I have to use Javascript on my sites because of this bug, please fix it in IE7, it would be great.
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January 01, 2003
Hey,

Chris: great list, I’m looking forward to the next beta, including all additional things that will be implemented/fixed and are not on this list yet.

HTML in Acid2: I’d say that’s an SGML error, not HTML.

application/xhtml+xml: no please, unless it’s done well. Just accepting it and treating it as tag soup HTML would be the worst.

Go button: put it back :).

Ecmascript: will be see improvements here as well? I’m thinking memory leaks and improved DOM standards support? Also, when creating lots of JScript objects, IE slows down a lot (this problem doesn’t exist in VBScript).

What I’m still missing, and would like to see fixed as well:
* Font-size inheriting into tables
* no * html in Strict mode
* Multiple classes support
* <q> support
* images flickering when dynamically moved with cache disabled

~Grauw
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
@Rick: indeed selection of text is a problem with positioned elements. It seems to differ though with the mousedriver used sometimes; i know of simular problems with position: relative and some none-standard mousedrivers. It could be API-related...

For those pleading about XHTML support: I don't feel it's that important since for most real-live situations HTML will do just fine. Most people use XHTML with a text/html mimetype anyway, which in essence is just (mallformed) HTML to the browser, so what would XHTML mimetype support make for any difference?
Also most sites using proclaimed XHTML don't respect appendix C ( http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/#guidelines ).
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003

While Beta 1 isn't going to stop the bad words bein spoken about IE over here, It's great to hear that you're working on all the stuff that we want you to fix.

Thanks for the honest insight.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Lots of improvement it looks like. It's amazing what a little competition from Firefox/Safari can do :)
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Thank you, thank you, thank you! I think we all greatly appreciate this list on CSS standards. I was angry and frustrated about reports from IE7 beta 1, but now I have more patience and look forward to future updates.

I few things that I would really like to see:

- min-width / min-height support
- fix for the flicker problem when using :hover on background images
- no * html in strict mode
- user font resizing for px specified font-size

Thank you again for giving some insight into standards.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
System Information program displays msencode.dll is dll of IE. But you open the file, and open file property, you can see this file is dos-file. Can't you fix it really?? The whole MS employee can't fix it?? Are you stupid?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Please remove the * html thing from standards-compliant mode. This shoyuld have never been used in the first place, as there is a perfect solution for specific IE feeding: conditinal comments.
Since there is a solution that works 100%, there is not reason to keep the buggy behavior.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
This is great news!

But how are you going to handle compatibility issues with sites that rely on IE6 bugs? For example, sites generated by some WYSIWYG editors rely on the double margin bug and other IE quirks. Will there be some backward compatibility mechanism, along the lines of doctype switching, to address this issue?

Also, support for the table CSS properties should satisfy the purists on the table vs. CSS issue.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Sounds great!! Can't wait to try the beta!

I'm curious about "display: inline-block;" - will it work on all objects (block and inline) on IE7?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003

It is good that you guys finally started to come around and support standards to some extent at least, the bug fixing is welcome for web developers but still this is really too little too late.

Think about it, when you fire up IE7 and go to a webpage that's not standards compliant because it was designed for previous versions of IE (you're fault) IE7 will simply revert to the older rendering mode, perhaps some sort of quirks mode again or something of the sort. Am I right?

Otherwise older sites that are poorly coded (majority of websites sadly) won't work in IE7, so you have to do this.

But then, how does this solve anything?
Think about it, if I made my website for IE6 not supporting standards and not wanting to spend the time working out all the bugs and workarounds usually needed to make a properly coded website work (more or less) in IE6 (and earlier versions), and it still works exactly the same in IE7 what reason do I have to change my website? None.

Furthermore, IE7 will not have a bigger share then earlier versions for quite some time, the fact that it will only come with Vista and as an update to XP doesn't help either because there are hundreds of millions of people with 2K, and 98 still.

So as far as standards adaptation go, it will take a lot of time for that to happen. Thanks to the pseudo-standard you guys created earlier.

Seriously, let's say now I can make a nice standards compliant page that's properly coded and works in Firebox and Opera and IE7. It still doesn't work in IE6 and I still need to do all the old workarounds just like before.

So really what's changed? I don't even know what at this point you can do.
All I can say is that at least you should make IE7 a critical update and push it with other security updates so it have a greater market share.

And from this point on accept the standards.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
@ Bruce: user font resizing for px specified font-size is already possible in IE6. Unfortunately the default setting is 'off' and it's hidden in a hard to find place (Tools > Internet Options > Accessibility > Ignore font sizes).
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January 01, 2003
That's all great except it's too bad that all of those enhancements for web developers aren't going to be useful until more of the world is on XP and can use IE7. I see that as still years away. It would be nice to see some sort of update to IE 6 that addresses these issues even if all of the security enhancements can't be retrofitted to it. I'm still going to be developing for an IE6 world no matter how great IE7 may be because too many people won't have a reason to go to XP until they have to.
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January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
"I want to be clear that our intent is to build a platform that fully complies with the appropriate web standards, in particular CSS 2"

Brilliant - that's just what I and a million others wanted to hear :)

Let's hope your intent is matched by your product!

Thanks.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I don't think I will ever install MSIE7 if proper XHTML support (including proper handling of application/xhtml+xml MIME type of course) and proper CSS2.1 support, including generated content (:before, :after, content, counter, url etc.) and selectors will still be missing.
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Thanks for clarifying what we can expect. This type of post helps developers/designers the most. Since you solicted feedback on specific features, I'll ask this: What will you remove from IE7?

I would like to see cursor:hand deprecated in IE7. This is IE-only and not a CSS standard. If someone (or a third-party app) uses cursor:hand they may believe that it "works" in other browsers but it won't -- and they'll blame the other browsers for not supporting it. What should be used is cursor:pointer, which you also currently support.

I can understand if you wish to provide backward compatitibilty for non-IE7 DOCTYPES but I would request that the IE7 DOCTYPE drop support for cursor:hand to assist developers/designers in creating cross-browser CSS.
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January 01, 2003
I think the biggest problem occurs when you put a lot of code (or a big Array) an IE comes slow and slow. This is our nightmare when we use AJAX!!!!

Is this fixed in IE 7?

Thyago (thyagoliberalli@hotmail.com)
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Chris,
What do you mean about data: URLs? It looks useful in some circumstances. Do you see some hidden problem?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I would like to see the layers/DHTML/native controls working correctly. Right now, only IE prevents the correct rendering of DHTML higher-Z-order over lists and selection boxes. This makes it rather hard to have DHTML menus on pages that have such elements on them and still be usable by IE.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
How about the webpages that are using the current bugs to their advantage? Will it break them?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
This new CSS support sounds great! I'd love to see XForms 1.0 or 1.1 support, even as a one-click option as Firefox is doing. That would really let cross-browser XML take off, without requiring a google of JavaScript programmers!
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Can we expect SVG in the IE7 roadmap at all?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Whilst it is very nice to see these long-standing bugs fixed it's actually suprising to me that with so little increased support that this is 7.0

It almost feels like a 6.5 release with new GUI and back-end security fixes, rather than brand new support for standards which I'd expect from a 7.0 release.

Do you have any thoughts on this? Or am I just projecting?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Support for combo boxes would be a useful and sorely missed capability.

And I second the earlier comment about list boxes always appearing in a layer in-front of every other layer.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Editable content without an undo capability makes it completely useless for all but the most trivial of applications.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Do you even know about the OnClose event handling bug? If a page is renedered using XSL the OnClose event does not get fired when the page is closed. It'd be good to get these basic bugs fixed.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
what about DOM support?
IE is sorely lacking in this area as well.
http://www.w3.org/2003/02/06-dom-support.html

And what of the select menu bug?
select menus appear on top of other elements like css/dhtml drop down menus and there is no current way of eliminating that issue.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
> Since these CSS bugs are not linked to any of
> the security enhancements code (hopefully!) it
> should be quite easy to backport the fixes. If
> not, something is either very wrong with the IE
> codebase or Microsoft wilfully refuses to fix
> their bugs.

And this surprises you?

One purpose of Microsoft establishing a virutal monopoly on Web browsers was to require people to purchase an entire new operating system in order to upgrade their browser. It would defeat that purpose if Microsoft allowed customers a path to the browser upgrade that did not also involve an OS upgrade. I have no doubt that the same technique will be used to leverage XP users into buying Vista.

Like those multi-function printer/scanner/fax/copier machines that office equipment vendors keep trying to sell me, if you want to upgrade any part of it, you have to buy a whole new package. Even if you're perfectly happy with the printing, copying, and fax functions you have now, you have to buy them all over again to get a better scanner. This is why in a cubicle-sized office I allocate space for a printer, scanner, and actual physical fax machine.

You're talking about the good of the customers, the website developers, and the Web as a whole. Microsoft doesn't have the slightest trace of concern for any of that; their sole concern is for the profits of their stockholders. This is not the place to debate the rightness or wrongness of that, or of business ethics as a whole. Just accepting it as a given will save much time and speculation about what MS will or will not do. If it makes the stock price go up, MS will do it. Forcing customers to buy a new OS to get a browser patch will increase profits, which will increase the stock price; therefore, MS will do it.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
First off, I'll admit that I am no longer a windows user and never will be again, just to give what I plan to say some context. There was a time when I liked ie better than other browsers, but not now.

I am very pleased to see IE7 starting to catch up with everyone else, when it comes to standards support. If only common cross-platform standards were genuinely supported in everything MS did.

Keep it up!
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
i hope you wont implement the !important tag so we can always override your bunk settings with out own.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Just wanted to clarify my previous comment, as I lumped two questions in one -

Is there any chance that there will be support in IE7 for the application/xml+xslt media type?

Supporting it just means that you would consider it to be an alias for "text/xsl", which is a Microsoft-invented media type that ended up not being standardized. It's not a showstopper, of course, but it does unnecessarily complicate the use of 'xml-stylesheet' processing instructions in XML docs that are used on different platforms.

This has nothing to do with XHTML, DOM, or otherwise. I don't think there would be any harm or complications in implementing it.
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January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
To Simon Wilson: Here are some really interesting IE Win css tests documented, a must see. The links are included.

http://www.brunildo.org/test/#win

http://www.brunildo.org/test/#ief
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Links from the desktop: A lot of what I read online affects me, but I don't want to flood the aggregators with lots of items. Here's some stuff that I want to get into this weblog's database, and in the...
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
You're fixing all of the worst incompatibilities? And actively attempting to ship a standards-compliant browser?

Who are you and what have you done with the real Microsoft?!?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Thank you! This is the first time I've ever seen anyone from MS commit to standards compliance. Is there somewhere we can report specific bugs to you in the hopes of getting them fixed?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
This was never much of an issue in the past, but the advent of Wikipedia and other international applications has resulted in an increased demand for supporting the display of characters from multiple scripts (writing systems) in a single document. Other browsers are surpassing IE's ability to deal with multilingual content. The basic idea is that if a web page that is mostly a Latin-based script also contains a bit of Greek, as does http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_Creed, then the browser should do its best to use Greek glyphs, regardless of what font is preferred for Latin-based scripts. But IE6 (on typical North American Windows XP setups, at least), regardless of font settings, is not able to render all of the characters on that page, and it seems no amount of browser configuration or tweaking of the HTML will remedy it. It's particularly strange because the characters that are showing up unrenderable are available in the default fonts; you can load up the text in Notepad with, say, Verdana, just fine. Only in IE is there a problem with it.

Since IE5 there has been a "font linking" technology in place that supposedly helps with this somewhat, but for reasons no one quite understands, it does not work very well, even when many fonts are available and HTML lang attributes are used. Font linking was never very well documented, and seems to require scripting an Mlang object and/or tweaking some registry settings in order to associate a font with its fallbacks, so it is not really automatic and I don't think anyone has yet figured out how to make it work on the web.

Is there any chance that IE7 will show any improvements in font linking? It would aid in the development of content for international audiences greatly.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I haven't read all the comments, so I don't know if this has been suggested already - I hope so... It's good to see that Microsoft are finally listening to developers - the deficiencies of IE has cost my clients about 30% more than simply designing to W3C standards.

My question is: since the Gecko rendering engine (along with the KHTML engine employed by both Konqueror on Linux and Safari on OS X) are open source, and available under very favourable licenses, why is Microsoft insisting on releasing an inferior rendering engine?

Why not work with the community instead of against it?

Doing otherwise will continue to embarrass the world's most profitable monopoly and frustrate the whole universe of developers seeking to adhere to W3C web standards?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
It's good to hear that Microsoft has finally decided to pay attention to the webdeveloper community after making so much noise about only being concerned with security issues and the user end of the browser.

About the "* html," I will take the position that removing "* html" will cause less overall breakage of webpages then keeping it now that Microsoft is committed to correcting many of the problems that forced webdevelopers to use "* html" in the first place. If it is still the IE Development's teams goal to produce a browser that better supports the W3C specifications for CSS without creating havoc for webdevelopers, then removing "* html" becomes a necessity. From now on, webdevelopers can use conditional comments to work around any IE7 problems that we encounter.

Now there is one thing that I am concerned about, that is which Windows versions IE7 will support. Windows XP SP2 doesn't go back far enough. The issue I have here is that webdevelopers should be free to recommend visitors to upgrade their version of IE to version 7 without having to tell them that they must also update their OS. This is why support going all the way back to Win98SE should be desirable, Win2K at the very minimum. The idea here is to get users of older versions of IE to adopt IE7 quickly with the minimum of fuss. Otherwise, you are opening the door and inviting a competitor to fill in the gap you have left behind.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I think the biggest CSS2 issue that needs to be added/fixed is full support for the display attribute. Currently "display: table", "display: table-cell", and other similar properties do not work at all. This presents a MAJOR PROBLEM when working with XML with CSS as you cannot display anything in a table format without using XSLT. I personally I find this to be the biggest issue with IE.
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January 01, 2003
Great news, glad to hear it.

Was worried by initial feedback on CSS support in Beta 1 but this has put my fears to rest.

Good work guys!
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I?m very happy that we?ve shipped IE 7 beta 1. I wanted to make it clear that we know Beta 1 makes l. . .
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
After seeing this blog entry referenced in Slashdot, I am pleased that active steps are being taken to make IE7 (shipping with the new Microsoft OS Vista, aka Longhorn) more CSS compliant. With IE7's catching up in the features game...
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Why do you say you've fixed things that you haven't fixed? The :hover pseudo-class is apparently supported for all elements, which its not, and child and adjacent selectors are apparently supported, which they're not. What's going on?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Finally: Internet Explorer version 7 will allow you to
use the CSS :hover pseudo-attribute on all elements.
This is a notorious IE deficiency. If I, as a web designer,
want to make something happen when you hover your mouse over,
say, a graphic, for any b
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Finally: Internet Explorer version 7 will allow you to
use the CSS :hover pseudo-attribute on all elements.
This is a notorious IE deficiency. If I, as a web designer,
want to make something happen when you hover your mouse over,
say, a graphic, for any b
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Al Billings,

I hate to break it to you and Microsoft, but you do have the "inferior" browser. Inferiority is based how well it can do its primary purpose, the downloading and rendering of webpages from the Internet, and its ease of use. And frankly, the other browsers are beat the pants off of IE in both areas. It's this kind of hubris that infuriates people when the folks at Microsoft are not willing to admit the obvious.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I'm sitting here as I write this in the Apache Testing tutorial and the speaker is saying that IE Digest authentication is broken because it doesn't follow the RFC and doesn't include the query string in the Digest material...

Are you planning on fixing these sorts of bugs as well?

(reference: http://www.modperlcookbook.org/~geoff/slides/ApacheCon/2004/test-driven-development.pdf)
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
@IE team, Chris:

I forgot.

If 99% of the problems with IE are fixed -- CSS, PNG, positioning, etc -- then please drop <?xml> quirks mode switching. i.e. now all XHTML pages will use Strict rendering.

You'll be just as good as other modern web browsers then.

The benefits are huge:

Nothing will be new to web designers, who have been (or should have been) designing to accomodate Safari for Mac users and Gecko for the 12% of the Net that uses Firefox, and Opera for those who prefer that.

If any lazy web developers have been IGNORING the standards and Safari/Mozilla/Opera, this will force them to stop relying on incorrect (quirky) behavior (good for the 'net).

Faultily formed HTML documents (legacy documents) can still display as they would in IE6.

Pages which were marked as quirksmode for IE6 would now benefit from a more powerful, correct IE7 AND still retain their IE6 quirkiness in IE6.

Some web developers don't know about DOCTYPE quirks mode switching. I didn't for awhile. This will spare them the agony of trying to figure out why their standards-based XHTML doc won't display correctly in a standards-compliant IE7 browser (if thy have the DOCTYPE without understanding its consequences, as I did for a time)!

Thank you for your time.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Could you explain how IE internally handles CSS?

Is there a function/method that I can call to show the actual code of the "Presentation (CSS/XSLT)" stage, like document.documentElement.outerHTML for the "Content (XHTML/XML)" stage?

Thanks, Chan.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
This my seem like an odd request but I want better support for icons in web pages. See link.

http://www.geocities.com/kev6425/icons.htm
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
<p style="font-style: italic;">Just nu r jag vldigt glad. Det r just denna nyhet jag har vntat p de senaste ren...</p><p>Nr Internet Explorer 7 kommer ut s kommer mnga av deras designbuggar att vara borta. Det innebr att man ntligen kommer att
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
As a Web author my main concern is with Web standards not security. IE is part of the shell so its Windows that must be updated.

I had to set up a Win98 machine last week (and a 2000 machine yesterday) and was so sad I had to use IE6. They'd use firefox if they didn't insist on using that stupid SBC Yahoo! browser. People will use their machines until they no longer work, don't care about Web standards.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Awesome! Finally some real words on CSS standards support. Your goals are admirable - I hope you achieve them and more!

I really hope that the IE7 rendering engine will be nicely wrapped as a .NET control... better than MSHTML and the like, maybe with hooks to embed browser windows into WinForms and pick up what link was clicked in the page cleanly from the WinForm??? :)
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Lachlan Hunt: http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/07/29/445242.aspx#445620

For the record: different Barry.

However, I disagree with your point. Conditional comments are available already in IE, and it's IE i'm talking about here, i don't expect this to form part of a standard, a standard's job is to describe the best possible case, striving towards all browsers rendering (almost) identically*. Where browser-specific functions can come in handy, is with overcoming their shortcomings. As conditional comments in HTML (and embedded script) are already available, it's becoming almost standard practice to include an extra stylesheet for IE hidden withing conditional comments in order to overcome it's flaws/differences. What I am asking for here is a way to do that in a single CSS file, in a clean manner.

The alternative is, of course, to get IE's CSS support to follow the standards completely and accurately. But it doesn't look like this is going to happen soon, so this would be:

A) An acknowledgement that browsers ARE different, and that IE isn't the only browser out there
B) A practical tool to help us make our pages work in IE quickly and efficiently
C) A 'gift' that will be loved by the css/validation-zealots

* Yes, I know, in an ideal world we should make pages that are flexible enough to look good with whatever level of support is available, but years of table-based design have lead clients into expecting pixel-perfect webpages... Point is, that's another topic for another day ;)
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Thanks for this. It is much appreciated.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Please consider rolling these bugfixes out in the form of a patch for IE6! It would make a <strong>huge difference</strong>.

Well done to the new IE team - you're on the right track.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Hey Al or Chris...

Why didn't you guys listen to us for IE6?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Potential Bugs/Feature Requests

Bug (I think): When disconnecting from a VPN that doesn't allow me to contact my intranet proxy server IE requires a restart in order to get it to contact sites again. I didn't have to restart IE 6 after disconnecting from a vpn, it would just go back to working again.

Feature Request: Confirmation before quit if more than one tab open - by default I click the X when im done with a window and I forget about tabs :)

Feature Request: Save open tabs as favorite folder/open favorite folder as tabs

Feature Request: Modifier + Click for open in new tab like ctrl-click opens in new window.

Thats all that i've arrived with so far...

Gareth Evans
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January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Fiery Kitsune,
>Hey Al or Chris...
>Why didn't you guys listen to us for IE6?

Can you be more specific?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Fiery Kitsune,

Since you are addressing me, I'll respond personally. I didn't work on IE6. :-)

I worked on IE4 and IE5 (and the variations of both such as dot releases). I worked on IE6 for XPSP2, which is the closest that might qualify but my test team was focusing on shipping the Information Bar, Popup Blocker and a few other things. I didn't work on the IE6 original release, though Chris did. I was off at other projects at Microsoft.

Al Billings [MSFT]
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January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Whatever IE is doing, it is just playing catch up. Whatever is being revolutionised on the web is not happening thanks to IE. The W3, Mozilla, and many other organisations promoting open source and web standards are paving the way.

You've really got out of touch with the web guys. Your only saving grace is your user base. If you were a smaller organisation like Mozilla, and you released this, you know it would not be as popular.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
the sad irony is that this doesn't really matter, when conjoined with the fact that IE7 will only be available to users with legitimate copies of WinXP.. out of the hundreds of machines i've personally worked on in the last year, i'd easily say 15-30% are swiped copies..
(sure, part of that is the higher than usual density of college students around here.. but still.) and i highly doubt that more than a quarter of them will "upgrade", even with the new WGA program.

That means that web developers can no longer recommend with much of a degree of certainty 'just upgrade'.. unless of course they mean upgrade to firefox.
so between the fact that a) people don't know they can or really care enough to upgrade, b) a significant chunk won't be able to, and c) i'd bet on an uptake curve of Vista even shallower than that of WinXP, I don't really think this is going to have much of a dent in browser usage statistics or easing of developer pains.

Which isn't to undermine your work... I'm quite glad it's happening, and that you're sharing the results with us.. It just won't make much of a dent for at least several years.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
nimdoc and all the others talking about the XML declaration and quirks mode: You are out of spec.

According to RFC 2854, the only form of XHTML you are permitted to send as text/html is XHTML 1.0 documents following Appendix C.

The first thing Appendix C tells you is that you need to avoid the XML declaration.

If you are including the XML declaration in documents that you are sending to Internet Explorer, then you are writing non-standard code, and Internet Explorer is doing the right thing by assuming that it's buggy and using quirks mode.

If you want Internet Explorer to follow the specifications, then follow the specifications yourself. You can't deviate from spec and then complain about Internet Explorer doing so too.

PS: IE developers - the new colour scheme and layout is nice, but stop messing with the font size! I have a perfectly good font size set in my browser already, and you are making it less readable by shrinking the text.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
This is all good news. Fewer headaches.

Sad that the decision was made years ago to
bake IE into the OS. If instead IE were a
regular app, these fixes would work for
Win 98/ME/2K/XP SP-1. Still sad/funny that
the baking was announced as a technical
goodness, when it was clearly technically
braindead.

Anyways, good moves. Keep going in the
right direction. MS will win if they
help developers win, which means increasing
standards compliance.

-- stan
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
IE needs to follow the standards. It's the only way to catch Mozilla/Firefox and keep developers and users happy.

I really hope Microsoft doesn't dis-ban the IE team after the release.

Right now, I only use IE when I have to and that is happening less and less.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Jim wrote: "nimdoc and all the others talking about the XML declaration and quirks mode: You are out of spec."

I don't think so. If you read RFC 2854 (http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2854.txt), it says in section 5: "XHTML documents (optionally) start with an XML declaration which begins with "<?xml" and are required to have a DOCTYPE declaration "<!DOCTYPE html"." So it mentions that the XML declaration is optional, which is fine.

Now if you look at appendix C of the XHTML 1.0 specification (http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/#guidelines) you will first see two things: this appendix is informative, not normative and it presents compatibility guidelines for rendering XHTML in old HTML browsers. Section C.1 explains that you may want to avoid the XML declaration in legacy browsers that are rendering text found before the HTML header (are such browsers still in use today?) or interpreting such documents as unrecognized XML rather than HTML. Neither of these applies to IE6, which incorrectly switches to quirks mode instead of displaying the XML code.

We should also balance that with the fact that the XML 1.0 specification states: "XML documents SHOULD begin with an XML declaration which specifies the version of XML being used"

So even according to the IETF and W3C standards mentioned by Jim, there is no good reason for IE to switch to quirks mode when the XML declaration is present.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I understand that prioritisation is essential and presume from the silence that SVG doesn't yet make that cut, but I just wanted to echo the other people here asking for SVG support in the browser.

Support of a vector graphics standard is not the sort of thing that end users will spontaneously clamour for, but it's too important and fundamental a technology to be left to a third party plug-in that users may not choose to - or be permitted to - install. If there's any doubt about that, surely all that's needed is to make the comparison with <a href="http://msdn.microsoft.com/windowsvista/experience/#wpfpt">Avalon/Windows Presentation Foundation</a>?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I see via Ditchnet.org that IE 7 Beta 1 is out, and support for CSS 2.1 is in the works. For comparison, see what Deer Park Alpha 2 (the next version of Firefox) includes. It looks like IE 7 is...
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
ECMAScript prototypes is still lacking, this would be a nice way to extend the the toolboxes of clientside-scripting people. And it is supported by all other browsers already... I'm really happy about the mime-type for xhtml. Keep up the good work...
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I understand that your work on IE is very difficult. It is very complex application with many more problems that I even cannot imagine.

I know, guys, that you have difficult position when developing IE but believe me - so do I when designing pages for IE.

I hope that in the future I'll be able to say: "I created page according to standards and I don't need to spent any time by checking it against widely used browsers, because I'm sure it will work!" That's my professional dream!
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Although the bugs that are/will be fixed in IE7 are very welcome, I don't think it will make any difference because the percentage of users that will be using IE7 in 3 years from now will be very small since only Win XP SP2 can be updated to IE7. So, if we can't tell people to "upgrade to IE7" without them having to upgrade their OS, it's all pointless. Therefore, at least the CSS bugs should be made available as a patch for older IE versions.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
As my title specifies, IE7 isn't going to pass the Acid2 Test that a few browsers have now been tweaked to pass correctly. This isn't all bad though, since a member of the IE team has posted on the IE...
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I add my voice to the requests for application/xhtml+xml support, but more importantly, I would be delighted to hear a definitive answer one way or the other.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
To Al Billings [MSFT]:

- quote

"We fully recognize that IE is behind the game today in CSS support."

- end quote

You most certainly do have an inferior rendering engine, what in the wide world do you think this whole blog is about!!!!????
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I'm very curious on the next IE. For me the support of XForms 1.0 / 1.1 would be very helpful. The support of SVG is not with priority, it's pluggable.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Chris W., this is off topic but we need to know where we can report real bugs in IE 7 (not feature requests).

We are a plug-in vendor and we noticed that some behaviour in IE 7 is breaking some of our functionality. We are not sure if this is a bug or an intentional change in behaviour.

In IE 6, the ActiveX container called both OnDragEnter and OnDragOver events when a mouse was clicked. In IE 7, OnDragEnter event gets called and only if the mouse button is held down longer does the OnDragOver event gets called.

We need to know if this behaviour is a bug or an intentional change.

Thanks.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Chris W, what I meant was this: Why wasn't there any community influence in the quality of IE6 during its development?

Also, did this blog get a makeover yesterday?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
What about supporting pseudo-classes for elements other than <a>? e.g. Firefox supports td:hover as well as a:hover, but IE doesn't and you have to use Javascript to work around this.

I would also like to see the DOM implemented correctly please. But well done for all the hard work.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Mike, you wrote:
> I downloaded the IE7 Beta from my MSDN
> account and I want to submit a few bugs I
> found. I couldn't find a way to do it
> through MSDN. Is there another way to
> submit bugs and be able to track them like
> I normally do on betaplace?

The page where you downloaded it on MSDN has links and information for reporting bugs. Please report them there.

Thank you,
Al Billings [MSFT]
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Al Billings [MSFT], I was not able to find any links to report bugs either on the MSDN IE 7 download page nor in the release notes document en_IE7_B1_4_XPSP2_RelNotes.txt.

Thanks.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I don't know if the following is "on the radar"
for IE7, but I'll mention it here for posterity:

Javascript Benchmark - w3c DOM vs. innerHTML
http://www.quirksmode.org/dom/innerhtml.html

I have personally hit some severe performance
penalties in IE6sp1 when manipulating large
HTML tables (hundreds of rows) via Javascript and DOM references.
The same exact Javascript code is several orders of magnitude faster in Mozilla 1.7.10 ...

To be fair, I don't know if this is an IE problem or a JScript problem...

Just thought I would mention it here. :)
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Here are 2 features I think are critical for IE7.

1) http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/menus/demo.html
It looks like this isn't in beta 1 but planned based on "Fix :hover on all elements". I would like to see all the psuedo tags used on the <a> tag be availble for all elements.

2) http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/complexspiral/demo.html
It looks like this isn't in beta 1 but planned based on "Background-attachment: fixed on all elements not just body".

One last thing. Were do we provide developer feedback?! http://www.microsoft.com/windows/IE/ie7/default.mspx This states that the release was intended to provide feedback, but I cannot find anywhere for proper feedback like a news group or bug log.

Thanks,
Tyler
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Достаточно интересная информация для тех, кто посмотрев на Beta 1 начал топать н
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Will IE 7 be "unbundled" from the OS? It seems to me that is a primary design arbitrary, which if rectified would make all of this a whole lot easier. I can't really say that having a browser "built in" to an OS fulfills any of my needs or wants.....
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I was kinda suprised of the harsh words of Paul Thurrot.

http://www.windowsitpro.com/Article/ArticleID/47208/47208.html?Ad=1

Anyone of the IE team that will comment on (t)his column?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I'm so confused.

You explicitly said: I want to be clear that our intent is to build a platform that fully complies with the appropriate web standards, in particular CSS 2 ( 2.1, once it’s been Recommended). I think we will make a lot of progress against that in IE7 through our goal of removing the worst painful bugs that make our platform difficult to use for web developers.

This means that IE7 will NOT be standards compliant, but instead will "make a lot of progress against that" goal?

Why would you even bother then? How could you possibly compete in terms of quality against standards compliant browsers? Browsers that DO pass the Acid2 test? Why have you taken so many YEARS to go most of the way, only to stop just short of the goal?

Please, some clarification: Will IE7 be standards compliant? Yes, or no.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Chris, you misunderstood what the Acid2 test page meant by "Acid2 does not guarantee conformance with any specification".

What they're saying is that because Acid2 doesn't test every single aspect of the standards involved, it doesn't confer conformance.

Acid2 is a necessary but insufficient condition for a browser to be conformant. A browser that fully conforms to the listed standards WILL pass the Acid2 test without any problems. A browser that fails Acid2, can NOT be conformant to all of the listed standards.

We all understand that certain bugs and parts of the standards are more important than blind conformance to the standards, but the Acid2 test represents a weighing of those things as done by a knowledgeable member of the web community. Its fine if you make different priorities and choose different areas to work on, just give us good reasons for them if they don't match with what the users want.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Can IE just come up to date with All w3c standards?

I mean stop doing stuff that only IE will support, dump JScript in favor of JavaScript, Use The DOM for crying out loud get rid of document.all & just go with standards so the programmers out there don't have to dual code.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Its dissapointing that the IE team has no plans for full standards compliance, and in fact you gurantee that it won't happen.

I think that this is a great oppurtunity for IE7 to jump ahead and take over marketshare as well as developer mindshare. Microsoft has billions of $$, and more importantly the brightest people. You guys should be leading the way in innovation by implementing full support for things like Acid2 and Css3.

It seems that the security issues with IE will be a thing of the past (they already are a lot better in Sp2), so the only area where it lags behind is technology. Firefox, Safari etc are all actively working towards implenting the latest standards and once again IE7 will be left behind.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Just fix that zombie quickly and quietly. Nobody is excited about IE. There is absolutelly nothing to be excitied abouot it anymore. Majority developers hate it. And If you guys do not feel as janitors cleaning up old mess and feel eager to share your work excitement with tired community that is also pathetic.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
"Sad that the decision was made years ago to
bake IE into the OS. If instead IE were a
regular app, these fixes would work for
Win 98/ME/2K/XP SP-1."

IE was "baked in" to the OS starting with Windows 98/IE4. It was "baked in" through Windows 98 SE/IE5, Windows 2000/IE5.01, Windows Me/IE 5.5, and Windows XP/IE 6.0. The baking in (integration) is itself not a problem--from IE4 through IE6, each version was made available for previous versions.

The problem really began with XP SP2 and the IE 6 that came through that. If IE 6 SP2 would have been developed in the same means that IE 6 SP1 was developed, it could have been made available downlevel just eas easy. Someone specifically had to have made a decision that the SP2 improvements would only be available in XP. The internal build process that IE goes through was undoubetbly revamped prior to SP2. Unfortunately, it seems to be too late to revert that and go back to the way it was.

However, that said, I can't think of any reason that a new version of MSHTML can't be made available for Windows 2000 at least. It would have to be a distinct version, say IE 6.5. But really, all that would accomplish is having yet another version of IE out there to support, since even with this, IE6 isn't going away.

It's really unfortunate that the integration was "tightened" post IE6 SP1. It would be nice if someone from the IE team could comment on what really happened regarding this.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
How does that exactly relate to the ducks mating rituals?
Don't get me wrong here, I've read the text carefully and I haven't noticed even a single hint regarding ducks, not even a duck stew.
Personally I wouldn't care as much, but the mentioning of so many bugs clearly requires balancing with ducks (which like bugs, are quite useless).

I'd appreciate your clarifications on the issue.

Thanks,
Slomak
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I've been working with IE for quite a while now in developing the Echo/Echo2 web frameworks, and wanted to point out a few specific significant CSS and general rendering issues which are present in IE7 beta 1 (which are carried over from IE6). I've written an entry in the Echo2 project blog about these issues here:

http://echotwo.blogspot.com/2005/08/ie7-beta-1.html

While this blog entry is written from the perspective of solving CSS/rendering issues that specifically affect Echo2, the issues listed will equally affect anyone attempting to develop a web-based application using CSS and dynamically modified HTML.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I have to disagree with those who say that it is pointless for Microsoft to update IE if it isn't going to 100% adopt the W3C specifications. No browser currently supports the W3C specifications at 100%. IE is improving its support for CSS and fixing all but the most obscure bugs with the CSS that it currently support. For this and the next version, IE is in "catch up" mode with the other browsers. We should be encouraging them through this period instead of complaining about it.

As for not passing the Acid2 test, well Firefox 1.1 isn't going to pass it either. But we must remember that Acid2 is just one goal post, not a minimum requirement.

As I said earlier, my biggest concern with IE is the how far back the development team will backport it. Having XP SP2 as the cutoff is going to seriously hamper IE7's adoption.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
How can you say in one paragraph that you've failed to make any headway with standards and in another paragraph that ease of development is a priority? This is a MAJOR contradiction. As a web developer, having a big player ignoring standards is my biggest pain.

Come on, it's not that hard.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I knew it. I knew not to get my hopes up. In one instance I'm happy to see some of the bugs fixed, in another I'm disappointed that we're not seeing advancements over the norm. I feel melancholy about this new operating system more and more...

I know that no browser can be 100%, but I see a handful of people get further along than a billion+ company. How can you not argue for open source?

As soon as your product is ready for primetime, it will be years behind other browsers. Two years after, we'll be on a new blog, complaining about the lack of progress from IE compared to the rest...

You've cleaned up some of your mess, and I'm happy for it, thank you. But it just seems like under achieving again, and I have little excitement hearing about anything from this camp any further.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
---Quote---
1) And exactly how does the checkbox magically know what its label is? Is it the text to the right, or maybe the text to the left, above, below?, in column with hundreds of other little checkboxs? is it an image to the right, or maybe something embeded they are selecting? Maybe an Iframe, or it could be positioned anything.
---Quote---

Zach, please read: <a href="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/interact/forms.html#h-17.9">HTML">http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/interact/forms.html#h-17.9">HTML 4.01 Forms - Labels</a> (URL: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/interact/forms.html#h-17.9 - Jump to the section on Labels)

And perhaps adjust the level of your arrogance to be more in sync with your understanding of the issue.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Come on! Firefox, Opera, Netscape, Safari, Konquerer, they all are beyond CSS 1 spec. Why can't IE7 be? Are you incapable of making IE as compatible as those browsers, or is it part of Microsoft policy that dictates that IE be "different" - Is this an edge that you purposely exploit? Pass the ACID2 test and I'll forever switch back to IE.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
"Acid2 does not guarantee conformance with any specification"

I think what they mean is that rendering acid2 properly does not neccessarily make the browser compliant with the standards. However, not rendering it properly means that you aren't complying completly to the standards.

Although Wilson has noted that acid2 is mostly a wishlist, acid2 does contain alot of tests for HTML, CSS, and PNGs in it that should be supported.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
If the IE team stopped improving CSS now, I'd totally be fine with your beta fixes!

This was great news to hear. Keep up the awesome work you guys.

...on with the DOM now :)
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
IE should be standards compliant i think by introducing CSS 2.1 etc it will bring the platform farward. This should have been done along time ago tho i feel.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I suggest another correction. In IE7 beta1, the accesskeys on the links only select them and don't open them.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Så var sommeren over for denne gang - tydeligvis. Etter en uke under Hellas' brennende sol er jeg nå tilbake i grå og kalde Norge. Værgudene vet tydeligvis at jeg har fri en uke til, men jeg skal ikke klage...
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
All "sounds" very promising!
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
i wish you all to develop IE-compilant websites for the rest of your lifes. i bet that is the worst nightmare.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
What about making scrolling tables work properly? (the idea is to be able to have a fixed footer and header and a scrolling table body)

<table>
<thead>

</thead>

<tbody style="height: 300px; overflow: auto;">

</tbody>

<tfoot>

</tfoot>
</table>

The idea is to have a table with a hundred rows and it will only be 300 pixels tall (plus the header and footer). When you scroll through the table the header stays put.

In theory this should work, I've found nothing in the CSS declaration that says it shouldn't. I see it as being an incredibly useful feature and hopefully you can adopt it into IE.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Well, uhm, it's about time now wouldn't you say?

Microsoft showing off with functions and support that has been on the market for basically ages. Internet Explorer is at best a slow webbrowser with little functions and as always, tends to be so far away from the standardized methods and functions as possible.

Very annoying, yet I am curious to see what MS has to offer against Opera and Firefox etc.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Kind of slipped in along with the whole announcement about Windows Vista and the beta release, was news of Internet Explorer 7 and its own beta release. Now, IE6 was the most advanced browser available when it came out in...
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
i think this may have been mentioned before but can you guys please fix the awful autoscroll image you get when you click the mouse scroll wheel. it's currently all jagged and aliased.

see this: http://tinypic.com/9kxw83.png
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I'm trying out the IE7 beta and I found a webpage that has a bunch of red boxes on it that shouldn't be there (just like in IE6): http://www.w3.org/2003/02/06-dom-support.html

But seriously, there is more than just CSS2 that web developers are hoping to see supported in the next version of IE. Having to work with two different range/selection models, and different ways of attaching events (and while we're at it please please find a way to get rid of the memory leaks here) is a serious pain.

Another thing that would save a lot of headache would be to eliminate the need to employ the "IFRAME masking" technique to get floated divs to not be obscured by select boxes and active-x controls. IFRAMEs bring their own bugs to the table that make even this workaround cause problems, like misflowing the document and causing automatic rescrolling of their container at odd times.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I agree, that just W3C-recommendations should be implemented.

But not a single word about XHTML2??? Will IE7 implement XHTML2, if it is recommended timely?

Btw, as a leading software company, I am awaiting leading-edge products from Microsoft. That means, you HAVE to keep track, what the latest developments [in W3C] are and implement them.
Otherwise, I think you will get hard times competing with Firefox, even, if the latter has his security probs, too.

Another question is, will IE7 be .NET-based? Will it provide sandbox-capabilities?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
It seems that IE7 will be good for web developers who supports standards. Thank you for your effort.

And I would like to say that I also will be looking forward for MathML support in IE.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
IE7 security changes: Rob Franco of Microsoft provides guidance on some of the security work being done in IE7. The first beta, now in private release, adds additional constraints on some uses of URLs and browser scripts. Rob also describes...
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
It is good news to read that better CSS support is planned in IE. Anyway take in mind that (possibly unlike Firefox) every IE release stays a fact for at least 10 years. Windows 98 has not disappeared yet, and XP and Vista are expected to have a similar lifetime. So every mistake you make now, and every feature of CSS 2.1 you don't fully support, will produce headaches in 10, 15 or 20 years. That's the weight of your responsibility, and under this point of view your posting is not too good news...
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Just wondering if anything with regards to

border-radius

will be added?

I don't know if this is css1/2/3, but it's somewhere. :-)

Thanks,
Lunamonkey
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Finally a IE with standards. It's been very difficult to we, webdesigners, have to devolope a kind of "two versions" of a website. One for IE and another for the other browsers.
Keep the good job.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Finally!
I hope you keep on the good work until the end.
Btw, the IE7beta1 doesn't even render your own blog sites correctly!! ( eample: http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/comments/441874.aspx , compare in IE7 and FF)
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
could you add ways to vetical align content in block elements like positioned divs
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
am i dreaming!? ;)

will "min-width" now work for <body>?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I don't have access to beta1, but have read several review of it, and seen some screenshots. The order of the toolbars seems counter-intuitive to me, but no matter...

"...our next major priority is removing the biggest causes of difficulty for web developers."

Personally, I think you spent too much time on tabbed browsing and not enough on more pressing issues, like broken rendering.

While I do applaud efforts to fix those major CSS bugs (which have given me plenty of grief in the past), there is one item you have overlooked: the ability to have multiple IE versions natively co-exist peacefully. This is a major PITA for developers. FWIU, downloading IE7 blows away IE6. That does not help developers in any way--quite the opposite.

Still, I await a public beta with reserved optimism. Just remember that, even though IE7 may have bugs fixed and better standards support, other versions of IE will be out there for many years to come. Just don't close all the back doors that allow developers to both test in older versions, and work around their various CSS bugs.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
:before and :after should be implemented, too
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
please implement border-spacing so we don't have to use <table cellspacing="0" ...
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
So I need to update <ewelink pageid="-290f74e2af9877abf0d8e2dc6992a896">my post from yesterday</ewelink> with a day's worth of perspective (and additional reads from my RSS feeds).

Saner and clearer heads other than Paul Thurrott's - and certainly s...
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Currently, IE falls back to quirks mode if an XML pi (<?xml ...?>) is placed before the doctype. I'd like to see this bug fixed.

Anyway, this list looks really promising. I hope you'll be able to stick to your plans to implement all these fixes and features.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
This is extremely encouraging news. I am well aware that I could find lots of things to moan about, as other posters have, but my overall impression is very favourable.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
We have a web app that requires a lot of data dictionaries to be loaded; unfortunately, the only mechanism provided is through the web GUI itself.

We've used VBA in Excel to control an IE instance by setting values of objects on the page and triggering requisite events; it works pretty well.

Until you get to a page for a dictionary that will, based on circumstances, present a web dialog. The web dialog may only contain buttons; or in more complicated scenarios, a list. In any event, because the IE6 DOM does not expose the properties of objects in web dialogs, we're forced to resort to SendKeys to push buttons; of course, we're out of luck in making list selections.

Is there any chance that, in IE7, there's more exposure for objects in web dialogs?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Disillusioned -
The user can't just download a copy of the 'suspect' URLS locally from the MS server because the database changes constantly, and could grow extremely large. If it takes a day before the scheduled update download of the database, the user has probably already clicked on the "eBay account problem" link that you were spammed with. Plus the network load from each individual user increases dramatically.

>Further, won't having to validate each and every URL with another remote server cause an

I believe that's DOMAIN, not every URL.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Hi, Chris. You say : ""Disillusioned" - NEXT_MAJOR priority. Next. Major. Not only. Yes, obviously, removing all causes of difficulty for web developers is something we want to do. Unfortunately, neither I nor anyone on my team has figured out how to warp space and time."

I'd like to know how many people are working on IE7 now and when you start to work. You seem to say that you have not enough time to fix all the "biggest" bug...I'm quite surprised. You're so a little team or you start to late to develop IE7 ?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
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Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Good post Chris, with some promising changes to come in beta2.

Not knowing about the internal politics of MS, it's hard to know why we've found IE in such a parlous state, but it's good to know that somebody (.ie. your team) gives a sh*t.

Unfortunately, it's probably too little too late to win back the developer community (and i'm not just talking about the anti-MS devotees), and it will take a version of IE that's distinctly ahead of the game, not close behind it, to win people back.

Still, keep pushing, and remember that many of us developers do appreciate your efforts!
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I heard a chorus of angels singing while reading this article. Thank you.
Thank you.

PS you should have comment numbering on this post :)
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Hey,

yeah it's getting there slowly but surely.

Guys 1 more things I think is useful.
Why don't you implement functionality for the 'accept' attribute for the input tag type='file'.

No browser supports it yet (that I know of), so be the first to do it.

link: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/interact/forms.html#adef-accept
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Great post. Looking forward to many of these improvements. I'd also love to see the background-image flicker (on hover) issue addressed.

http://www.fivesevensix.com/studies/ie6flicker/

Thanks so much for all your work.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
The comment has been removed
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
These CSS updates will be great.

This may have already been mentioned, but there are too many comments for me to read! My IE7 wishlist would also provide support for:

Multiple class selectors:

.red { color: red }
.blue { color: blue }
.red.blue { color: purple }

<p class="red blue">This text should be purple.</p>

Different classes for containers with an ID:

#container.red { color: red }
#container.blue { color: blue }

<p id="container" class="red">This text should be red.</p>
<p id="container" class="blue">This text should be blue.</p>

And, of course, a combination of both:

#container.red.blue { color: purple }

<p id="container" class="red blue">This text should be purple.</p>
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Paul Festa says it quote well in his article yesterday (http://news.com.com/A+standards+truce+in+the+browser+war/2100-1013_3-5818382.html)...
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Currently, when writing the XHTML/CSS for websites, I use two style sheets - 1 for Gecko browsers, and 1 for IE - using conditional comments for filtering.

With this new support for CSS coming in IE7, would it be prudent to add another conditional comment directing IE7 to make use of my Gecko styles, so that it doesn't barf all over the styles written for IE 5.x/6 (the styles that are meant to negotiate many of these bugs)?

If this would be prudent, will IE7 handle it properly if it is written as "...if IE7...", which is how I currently write it for IE5.x/6?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
want to use CSS2 with ie6 and ie5.5 ?
then look at this: http://dean.edwards.name/IE7
this think just make my life better :-p

----

and here is a bug that i dont thik that u know abut:

if i have body{direction:rtl;) or <body dir="rtl">
then the scroll bar move to the other side of the window and body{margin:auto} (for centering the content) dosent work so good...

to fix that i use:
html{direction:ltr;}
body{direction:rtl;}

you can please fix that thing?

---

i'm very hope thet ie7 will finnely support css like FireFox and Opera.

---

FireFox RULS !
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
want to use CSS2 with ie6 and ie5.5 ?
then look at this: http://dean.edwards.name/IE7
this think just make my life better :-p

----

and here is a bug that i dont thik that u know abut:

if i have body{direction:rtl;) or <body dir="rtl">
then the scroll bar move to the other side of the window and body{margin:auto} (for centering the content) dosent work so good...

to fix that i use:
html{direction:ltr;}
body{direction:rtl;}

you can please fix that thing?

---

i'm very hope thet ie7 will finnely support css like FireFox and Opera.

---

FireFox RULS !
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I wish you people all the luck in the world and I honestly hope that IE will support the official standards one day. The great lack of support is a major thorn in the eye of every goodwilling webdesigner, to put it lightly. (Who knows, you might even ditch ActiveX one day as well)

I'm a webdesigner which uses Firefox himself, but that doesn't keep me from wishing you all the best in developing IE 7.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I'd echo the requests for :before and :after as well as min/max width and height. I'd also like to see all the display: table (cell, row, etc) implemented. I think this'll go a long way to allowing really great CSS layouts without some of the problems of them breaking on window resize.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
"Disillusioned - The user can't just download a copy of the 'suspect' URLS locally from the MS server because the database changes constantly, and could grow extremely large."

put the phishy domain/url list into a bloom filter.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
found a funny (and yet unkown?) bug in ie6

check out the url!

bye,
Tobias :-)
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Sorry if this has already been asked and answered, but are there any plans for a more advanced view / edit source method, which could perhaps include code highlighting?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
The comment has been removed
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
You addedd transparency support for pngs, but the color which IE7b1 displays is not the same as photoshop displayd on creating, and firefox on viewing the images... you can see it here: http://moins.de/2005/07/30/transparenz-mit-dem-ie-7-beta-1/
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
That's all that I want as web developer, But I agree with the way you are doing things.. the worst problem with IE right now is Security. That is a MUST.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Something that bugs me about IE is the Windows Update feature. Obviously security is #1 on your list, as it certainly must be, but I think #2 should be new -or improved- features. You have Windows Update for security largely, but rarely ever is it used to provide users with new features. It would be great to go to the Windows Update site and see optional downloads for IE. I just wish it were utilized more for user experience improvements every once in a while, that's all.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
The comment has been removed
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Disillusioned -
It is most certainly NOT just "semantics" on domain vs. URL - you were attempting to make a point about hit on load times per page. If you only have to check per domain, that load time effect is not as significant, correct?

As for those "gullible enough to send unknown data to MS" (and it's not unknown - read the EULA) - if, as you say, those are the demographic who will get caught with Internet nasties, then it's a good feature for them, no? And those who won't can just "download software in a second to make [them] more secure"?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
There is a rather frustrating bug in IE's form handling that no one seems to mention very much. When you press a button, IE posts the text on the button, rather than the value attribute of the button. It also posts the text for all buttons, not just the one that was pressed. This makes it impossible to use a form with more than one button that has the same name.

I've put together a testcase http://www.amherst.edu/~jwmerrill/phpractice/buttontest/

One instance where you may want to use multiple buttons with the same name but different values is if you have a list of pictures (or anything else) with captions, and for each picture you want the option to edit the caption, or delete the picture and the caption. Then you might have two buttons below each picture called "Edit Picture" and "Delete Picture", both with name="action" and values of "edit" and "delete" respectively.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Exciting news so far. There is one issue which I've seen mentioned once, but there've been no responses from Chris. This involves image caching problems when a user has changed the browser cache setting from the default "Check for newer versions of stored pages: Automatically" to any of the other choices. Is this issue going to be addressed?

Thanks.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
white-space: nowrap still doesn't work. W3C says that you MAY support this and MAY not, but still nice to have feature.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I would like for you guys to fix HTTP compression. I've seen several sites that say IE6 SP2 is supposed to support HTTP compression but it doesn't work right. I believe it's a combination of IE's internal caching and compression that truncates remote javascript and css files after a certain point causing javascript errors that come up sometimes. Pressing reload generally fixes it but I'd like to not have to tell clients all the time that sometimes the site will break and if it does, press reload. I've read in many areas where people would definitely like to use compression as it would save them large amounts of bandwidth. Please fix this bug.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
The Mozilla team seems to have the whole standards issue sorted. As Firefox is open source why don't you just use their code and re-jig it for your needs. I appreciate that IE is heavily embedded into windows and many of it's applications rely on the IE HTML engine.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
It's so SIMPLE you cannot imagine:

in fact it needs to make ONLY WRAPPER to make existing native table rendering engine able to render the SAME tables but on basis of ANY elements instead of only native TABLE/TR/TD elements.

There is only one real difference compared with traditional tables -- slightly another padding implementation: equal padding values for all virtual cells in framework of precise virtual table (how we can see what way it's already realized in other browsers). That's all!

Please add support for it. It's AMAZINGLY NEEDED for all web developers in the world.
Thanks in advance.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
After reading a dozen or more posts recently on Microsoft's direction with IE7 and the apparent hard-nosed opinions of many I decided to write a post of my own. I will start by saying I'm not sitting on either side...
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
border: 1px solid transparent;

Please fix that too!

Thanks!
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
The comment has been removed
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Why wasn't this done 3 years ago?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
In addition to fixing the HTTP compression problem, could you also fix the progressive jpeg/image interlacing problem? I find it rather annoying that a non-interlaced image displays interlaced and a interlaced image displays non-interlaced. All other browsers comply and display interlaced images properly.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
In addition to fixing the HTTP compression problem, could you also fix the progressive jpeg/image interlacing problem? I find it rather annoying that a non-interlaced image displays interlaced and a interlaced image displays non-interlaced. All other browsers comply and display interlaced images properly.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Generated content. Period. Exclamation!
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Please, please, please get dotted lines working. It's insane that this works in all the other leading browsers and not in IE.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
The comment has been removed
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Its about time.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
The comment has been removed
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
How about printing iframes?

There's probably been i comment about this somewhere that i've missed, however if your frame spans over a printed page, IE seem not to bother printing anything on the second page. Is this going to be dealt with?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Call it wishful thinking, but I would love to see integrated SVG support, failing that it would be nice to have IE7 bundled with Adobes SVG plugin.

I was dismayed when I tried out Beta 1, but if you even manage half these fixes in Beta 2 it will start to renew my faith in IE.

I'm not switching back to it, though. Safari 2.0/Firefox suit me fine.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
In case this haven't been report before. The document.getElementById is not case sensitive as it should be, getElementById("A") able to return element with id="a".
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I think it is great that IE is going to be supporting CSS to a large extent. And yes, security should be a higher priority. I hope you will add to your list of CSS stuff to add (though I think it's CSS 3): transparency. Anyhow, good luck programming.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I agree with Philip that integrated SVG support is needed soon.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
The comment has been removed
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
"Thought I'd let you know... not that you care."

Just my two cents, but lets all remember that there's a person, or rather group of persons, at Microsoft on the other end of these comments. There's no need to be rude. I share and completely understand the frustration that IE's quirks and bugs have caused web developers (I am one), but lets keep our disdain pointed at the company, not the group of people commissioned to fix the problems. Simple courtesy.

"...I have decided never to use it again except to test."

As have I; sorry Chris (and team), but I doubt I'll ever use IE as a regular browser again. But remember folks, the better this team fixes the product, and the more we provide feedback to assist them, the less testing we'll have to do in IE, and the faster we'll produce results for our clients/customers/selves.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
"Thought I'd let you know... not that you care."

Just my two cents, but lets all remember that there's a person, or rather group of persons, at Microsoft on the other end of these comments. There's no need to be rude. I share and completely understand the frustration that IE's quirks and bugs have caused web developers (I am one), but lets keep our disdain pointed at the company, not the group of people commissioned to fix the problems. Simple courtesy.

"...I have decided never to use it again except to test."

As have I; sorry Chris (and team), but I doubt I'll ever use IE as a regular browser again. But remember folks, the better this team fixes the product, and the more we provide feedback to assist them, the less testing we'll have to do in IE, and the faster we'll produce results for our clients/customers/selves.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
The comment has been removed
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
不要用aspx,用html就行了.
简单,客观,公正,公开.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
The comment has been removed
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
--- quote
# Improper Button Handling
Monday, August 08, 2005 9:54 PM by Jason
There is a rather frustrating bug in IE's form handling that no one seems to mention very much. When you press a button, IE posts the text on the button, rather than the value attribute of the button. It also posts the text for all buttons, not just the one that was pressed. This makes it impossible to use a form with more than one button that has the same name.

I've put together a testcase http://www.amherst.edu/~jwmerrill/phpractice/buttontest/
---end quote

I would like to reiterate this problem. w3c specification is that the value attribute should be returned (http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/interact/forms.html#current-value). MSDN documentation is that the innerText value is returned (http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/author/dhtml/reference/objects/button.asp), which becomes a particular problem for multi-lingual applications where the button text is presented in the user's language whilst its value attribute is a specific value recognised by the form processor and independent of the user language.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Hooray! Looks great. Thanks guys!
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
The comment has been removed
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Thank you! Now, what about DOM events model?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I'm happy to see that condsiderable progress is being made to improve IE's standards-compliance.

I would like to point out that Paul Thurrott has posted a follow-up to the oft-referenced "boycott" article:
http://www.windowsitpro.com/WinInfo/Article/ArticleID/47281/WinInfo_47281.html

And, I would like to reitterate the commonly held desire that the inclusion of an <?xml prolog not throw IE into quirksmode. This problem, while perhaps more easily overcome than others, strikes me as particularly ironic, in that the inclusion of the prolog during page creation as part of an attempt to fully follow the recommendation in fact causes the entire page to be rendered in quirksmode. Further, I agree with the authors at quirksmode.org that the policy of doctype switching itself deserves to be reevalutated.

By allowing people to get away with bad code for so long, IE has become obligated to support bad code for the forseeable future. What will it take for IE to change course and begin insisting that code be brought up to an acceptable level of standards-compliance?

Thank you again for your efforts,

http://www.ardamis.com/
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
STYLE FILTERS are not being developed enough.

They are a GREAT resource for Designers -
fast loading, attractive, and (text)read by Search Engines.

They also, are an asset for enhanced DHTML effects.

More emphasis should be placed on REALLY developing them further - including TRANSITIONS.

More work should be placed on Marketing them to Designers and Developers, as an option to Web graphics.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
search-engines-web, you are joking, aren't you? IE needs to follow agreed standards, not carry on down the path of setting its own. The style filters, while initially a fun toy to play with, deviate from the goal of haiving one code base to deliver to all (current) browsers.

I'm sure most people would prefer the CSS3 opacity attribute to IE's alpha(opacity) filter (and to the -moz-opacity attribute, for that matter.)
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
The comment has been removed
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
The comment has been removed
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
If you need to play with toys that only IE users will see, and thereby limit the experience for other users, rather than viewing sie devcelopment from a standards perspective, that's your perogative I guess. I'm certainly not going to get into an argument as to how you should dvelop your sites.

However, where IE filters duplicate CSS attributes, I believe that the CSS should at least be supported in tandem to, if not in replacement of, the IE filter. That way, those of us who have standards in mind can develop one site for all, and those that need to add little extras for a specific browser are free to do so.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
The comment has been removed
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Let me join the crowd that asks for better CSS, DOM support and standards compliance in MSIE. I, as a web application developer, would rather spend time writing useful code than looking for MSIE workarounds.

The button.value issue is really annoying, as it is not possible to have a value attribute that is different from the text content of the button. The current MSDN documentation is incomplete/incorrect on the subject. This is HTML4/DOM1, not even DOM2!

Also, the JScript engine is not currently compliant with ECMA-262, in particular RegExps are not compatible with the above spec (empty string instead of undefined when a pattern does not match), which is also painful. An ECMA-compliant Error object that tells more details about where the error happened would be appreciated too.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
The image flicker is not just a :hover problem, but also occurs when setting the style.cursor attribute using JavaScript.

http://online.skizzle.com

This site shows the problem when when you move in and out of the title bars, or the outer resize areas of the windows it displays. The cursor is set using JavaScript.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
you don't need wait. Get Firefox
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
The comment has been removed
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Al, you wrote:
> The page where you downloaded it on MSDN has
> links and information for reporting bugs.
> Please report them there.
>
> Thank you,
> Al Billings [MSFT]

This is not the case. Myself and several others have asked for info on where to submit a bug. I cannot find any info in the MSDN download section, release notes, installation files, or the given link http://www.microsoft.com/windows/IE/ie7/default.mspx where the IE team requests feedback.

Please open the door for us to give proper feedback.

Thanks,
Tyler
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I would like to add to Jason's quite valid point about the button not sending value=value that the button compared with the input type=submit button that msie currently does support seems oversized. For quick reference both buttons alongside in a snapshot: http://www.jiten.nl/examples/buttontestie.png
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
It's about time!! Great news.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Hi,

In IE, it is not possible to determine the currentTarget with attachEvent. IE does not support currentTarget. The scope of the object (e.g. this keyword), is lost.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
The comment has been removed
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Microsoft are trying to fix rendering engine bugsfor IE7. We are also hard at work doing the next rendering engine in Opera, and now Tim Altman wants you to post the most important bugs so please leave a comment at his blog with the most important rendering engine bugs. Not pet bugs, but the ones that are causing the most problems on a day-to-day basis.
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
Hooray for Chris!
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
"Alpha channel in PNG images"

Halle-friggin-lujah!! If it weren't for youngpup's sleight I wouldn't be using png now.

May I ask if the enabled filter will work in background images?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
For Simon Wilson: IE conditional comments are great but lack FULL usability. If there where a possibility to do eg IE5.5 AND IE6 like !IE6 (not IE6) it would be fully usable.

# To select for IE 5.01 and 6 - cannot be done!
# To select for IE 5.01 and 7.0 - cannot be done!
# To select for IE 5.5 and 6 - cannot be done!
# To select for IE 5.5 and 7.0 - cannot be done!
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
For Simon Wilson: IE conditional comments are great but lack FULL usability. If there where a possibility to do eg IE5.5 AND IE6 like !IE6 (not IE6) it would be fully usable.

# To select for IE 5.01 and 6 - cannot be done!
# To select for IE 5.01 and 7.0 - cannot be done!
# To select for IE 5.5 and 6 - cannot be done!
# To select for IE 5.5 and 7.0 - cannot be done!
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
The comment has been removed
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
The comment has been removed
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
The comment has been removed
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
I skrivende stund så finnes det kun tre nettlesere som består Acid2-testen, består din favorittnettleser testen?
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
The comment has been removed
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
As <a href="http://my.opera.com/olli/journal/29" target="_blank">Olli mentioned</a>, Chris Wilson has <a href="http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/07/29/445242.aspx" target="_blank">expounded on important interoperability bug fixes</a> in the future IE7. This list of bug fixes will remove a lot of cross-browser headaches, but ironically fixing them will also add some new ...
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
As <a href="http://my.opera.com/olli/journal/29" target="_blank">Olli mentioned</a>, Chris Wilson has <a href="http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/07/29/445242.aspx" target="_blank">expounded on important interoperability bug fixes</a> in the future IE7. This list of bug fixes will remove a lot of cross-browser headaches, but ironically fixing them will also add some new ...
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
As <a href="http://my.opera.com/olli/journal/29" target="_blank">Olli mentioned</a>, Chris Wilson has <a href="http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/07/29/445242.aspx" target="_blank">expounded on important interoperability bug fixes</a> in the future IE7. This list of bug fixes will remove a lot of cross-browser headaches, but ironically fixing them will also add some new ...
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
PingBack from http://www.scarycomputer.com/2006/01/31/welcome-back-ie/
Anonymous
January 01, 2003
PingBack from http://yakich.net/wp/2006/01/31/reason-to-laugh/
Anonymous
February 01, 2006
PingBack from http://www.easy-reader.net/archives/2006/02/01/a-load-of-malarkey/
Anonymous
February 03, 2006
PingBack from http://www.martytdx.com/zealot/archives/2006/02/01/internet-explorer-7-beta-2-preview
Anonymous
February 04, 2006
PingBack from http://www.steamreview.org/?p=40
Anonymous
February 06, 2006
JAM LOG : IE7β関連というエントリーより。 IE7βのCSSやWeb...
Anonymous
February 06, 2006
PingBack from http://patrick.vandewalle.net/2006/02/07/ie7-woes/
Anonymous
February 07, 2006
PingBack from http://www.kk-works.de/2006/02/07/erweiterter-ie-7-beta-2-praxistest/
Anonymous
February 13, 2006
PingBack from http://kropp.spb.ru/2005/08/internet-explorer-70-beta1.html
Anonymous
February 16, 2006
PingBack from http://elmetodomilton.com/?p=9
Anonymous
February 16, 2006
PingBack from http://techhash.com/blog/2006/02/01/first-looks-internet-explorer-70-beta-2-preview/
Anonymous
February 19, 2006
PingBack from http://www.nostabo.net/blog/2006/02/19/the-acid2-test/
Anonymous
February 20, 2006
PingBack from http://www.gustavus.edu/oncampus/gts/webservices/archives/30
Anonymous
February 22, 2006
PingBack from http://www.miklb.com/blog/2006/geek-life/internet-explorer-7-beta-2-preview/
Anonymous
March 11, 2006
PingBack from http://www.cubedblue.com/?p=44
Anonymous
March 24, 2006
PingBack from http://hebedesign.com/wordpress/?p=54
Anonymous
March 29, 2006
PingBack from http://www.webmastr.org/2006/designers-internet-explorer
Anonymous
April 02, 2006
PingBack from http://blog.bcse.info/207
Anonymous
April 06, 2006
PingBack from http://www.stilbuero.de/2006/03/15/png-alpha-transparency-fast-and-easy/
Anonymous
April 24, 2006
PingBack from http://realazy.org/blog/?p=52
Anonymous
April 30, 2006
PingBack from http://www.pamibe.com/?p=412
Anonymous
May 12, 2006
PingBack from http://atomgiant.com/articles/2006/05/12/custom-css-for-ie
Anonymous
May 14, 2006
PingBack from http://salvadigital.wordpress.com/2006/05/05/un-post-de-queja-internet-explorer-y-los-estandares/
Anonymous
May 18, 2006
PingBack from http://www.hiremaga.com/?p=111
Anonymous
May 24, 2006
PingBack from http://www.bleakgeek.com/2005/08/08/ieblog-standards-and-css-in-ie
Anonymous
May 27, 2006
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Anonymous
June 05, 2006
　皆さんごきげんよう。まぁ、まずはこの記事を読んでみよう。英語が読める方はIE...
Anonymous
June 06, 2006
PingBack from http://dynamiccorestudios.dk/development/?p=7
Anonymous
June 06, 2006
The comment has been removed
Anonymous
June 14, 2006
PingBack from http://p8.hostingprod.com/@peety-passion.com/blog2/2006/06/04/surfin-at-the-web/
Anonymous
June 29, 2006
PingBack from http://temporaer.net/nova*/?p=23
Anonymous
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PingBack from http://welshcrew.com/wp/2005/08/02/gadget-envy-and-beta-delusions/
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PingBack from http://n.ethz.ch/student/krugs/?p=13
Anonymous
July 27, 2006
PingBack from http://www.webcssdesign.34sp.com/2006/07/ie7-to-be-distributed-via-autoupdates.html
Anonymous
August 01, 2006
PingBack from http://labs.unolee.com/wordpress/?p=15
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August 07, 2006
PingBack from http://blog.alanguilan.com/2006/08/08/support/software/247.html
Anonymous
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PingBack from http://stevewong.org/2006/08/03/ie-7-will-not-make-web-developers-life-easier/
Anonymous
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PingBack from http://www.web2grow.com/web-design-australia/?p=117
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PingBack from http://www.puntogeek.com/2006/08/08/experto-en-windows-llama-al-boicot-contra-explorer-7/
Anonymous
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PingBack from http://blog.circlesixdesign.com/2006/08/08/ie7-and-css-a-dead-horse/
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PingBack from http://www.10goto10.net/?p=483
Anonymous
August 11, 2006
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Anonymous
August 13, 2006
PingBack from http://arbizu.org/blog/?p=144
Anonymous
August 16, 2006
PingBack from http://jaywhy.wordpress.com/2006/08/17/3/
Anonymous
August 22, 2006

We are currently locking down IE7 for shipping and I wanted to give an update on the CSS work that...
Anonymous
August 22, 2006
PingBack from http://www.techsmessage.com/2006/08/22/details-on-css-changes-for-ie7/
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PingBack from http://www.roks.xmgfree.com/blog/2006/08/25/ie7-css-chaneges-update/
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PingBack from http://stylegrind.com/details-on-css-changes-for-ie7/
Anonymous
September 01, 2006
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Anonymous
September 07, 2006
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