Things you should never say to a recruiter, part 3
"How do I break through the bureaucracy?"
"What's the secret handshake?"
PS: early process negativity won't get you an interview (quite to the contrary) and the secret handshake/bureaucracy break-through is being the best candidate.
Comments
- Anonymous
September 08, 2006
I'm giving myself the secret handshake as I type this. - Anonymous
September 08, 2006
Well, I am certain there are plenty of people who would like to be in the Secret Squirrel Club - but maybe they feel that there's no way they will be hired unless they try those bad tactics.
Could it maybe be nerves getting the best of them?
I've had my share of anxiety - I know I'm not immune to it - but I would have to agree with you about such statements that are so bold and won't get a candidate anywhere.
I guess I sit in the middle of the quandry though ..... on one hand, people (i.e. candidates) are simply trying to understand the hiring process and on the other, it must be frustrating and discouraging when someone tries to 'backdoor' a position by thinking you will secretly tell them something to help them solidify a job offer.
Interesting --- I've taken enough psych courses to be a dangerous armchair psychologist! ;-)
Here's a question though, Heather... isn't it common courtesy for a "thank you" for your help from potential candidates? Would you view that as "scheisty" or unprofessional? I have a tendency to think just the opposite, but I am not in your career field. Your thoughts? - Anonymous
September 08, 2006
Let me throw in another: "What are they looking for?" or "What do they want?"
(Might it help if you read the job posting or job description?) If the candidate asks a specific about the job (hours, pay, etc.) he/she can be referred to the hiring manger. but "What are they looking for?"
I'm tempted to answer "not you" (but I don't) - Anonymous
September 08, 2006
Tim, I'm going to hold off on my follow-up question and just say that you are very talented. : )
Vicki-I think it is anxiety that leads them to a poor choice of humor. I think funny is OK sometimes, but not if it tends to be negative. Also, they don't realize that they are insulting the recruiter. If you got the job for the "secret handshake", then what value is the recruiter adding? I think that some people can get frustrated and have a bit of a chip on their shoulder by the time they reach the recruiter. No matter how frustrated they already are, though, the recruiter can be their advocate. They just have to resist the urge to be negative (something I know a thing or 2 about), because they'd just be shooting themselves inthe foot.
I don't think there's anything wrong with thanking a recruiter for their help. It's a courtesy but it's part of the recruiter's job to help. I don't think it's "scheisty" unless the candidate is expecting some extra consideration by buttering up the recruiter. I don't think that a "thank you" would necessarily qualify as that. OK, now everybody that I have helped in the past, don't feel like you need to send me a "thank you" mail. Seriously : ) I feel the love.
JOhn-agreed, they need to read the job description. THey could ask some clarifying questions. Like "I noticed that the job description listed the requirement of strong cross-group colaboration skills. Can you tell me a little about who the person would be collaborating with and the current nature of those relationships?".
Man, I am great at telling other people what to say in an interview but I'll tell you, I'm not sure I would think of all this stuff if I were on the other side. - Anonymous
September 08, 2006
Do not ask the following unless you want the interview to end fast.
-Do I get a cube or an office?
-Can I work from home?
-Can I have a Blackberry?
-Can I wear jeans to work? - Anonymous
September 09, 2006
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September 10, 2006
You still need to account for cultural differences, what might not be acceptable to a recruiter in the US might be the norm elsewhere.
I guess the best advice you can give any candidate is to be humble. I have rejected excellent candidates in the past for not treating the recruiter with sufficient respect "ohhh, but that was ONLY the recruiter". That type of arrogance is a bad sign, if the candidate cannot treat all people that interview him/her as equals than I don't want that person on my team. It's a sign that they lack sensitivity or empathy. - Anonymous
September 10, 2006
Yikes. HR horror stories. Some of these statements/actions are either extremely bold or blatantly stupid, either way, they're no good. I'm sure desperation factors in to some of this, as well as ego. I guess you can't blame some people for trying different routes to success, even if they are proven dangerous time and time again.
Vicki - Congrats on snagging an interview, good luck!
Since we're on the subject, what is the secret handshake?
:] - Anonymous
September 10, 2006
You mean there isn't a secret backdoor? No special incantation and fraternity pledge? Next you'll be telling us that there isn't an Easter Bunny, and that Bill Gates is an invention of the PR department. Say it isn't true.
As a wise songwriting sage once said:
R-E-S-P-E-C-T.
Find out what it means to me! - Anonymous
September 11, 2006
Maybe it's my ignorance, but it's utterly shocking that some candidates actually say things like this, especially in an interview with Microsoft. There really isn't an excuse for it and its unfortunate posts like this need to be made to address the obvious.
Although like other comments seen above, I think that your nerves sometimes interfere with what you want to say and how you wanted to say it. That comes back to the fundamentals ... in most cases, if you're yourself and don't try to say what you think MS wants to here, you'll be far better off.
-Erich - Anonymous
September 11, 2006
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September 11, 2006
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September 12, 2006
What about "Cute shoes!"? Just wondering... - Anonymous
September 12, 2006
Or, "Wow, your Receptionist is a real B***." - Anonymous
September 12, 2006
People "forget" they need to be nice to the receptionist. Back when I was seeing candidates all the time, we used to hear from the receptionist on the professionalist of the candidates we brought in. I'd wait until the intreview process is finished to complain about the receptionist.
"Cute shoes" is fine..."how much did they cost?" isn't. - Anonymous
September 13, 2006
Probably not a good idea to say, "Cute shoes! Just too bad that they don't go along with the rest of your outfit."
Not good either...
;-) - Anonymous
September 13, 2006
Maybe another way to phrase it is to say "Cute shoes... Where did you get them?" But then again probably not a good move if you are a man and the receptionist is a woman! :-0 - Anonymous
September 13, 2006
"Cute shoes. Do you have to go to a special store to get them in a size that big?" - Anonymous
September 13, 2006
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September 13, 2006
Recently got . . .
I don't really like supervision.
In fact I'm pretty bad at it.
In fact, it's probably what I am worst at.
People are just hard to work with, don't you think?
From someone whose resume started with
"Objective: seeking a position in management" - Anonymous
September 13, 2006
Cute shoes. You squeeze your clubbed foot in there rather nicely!
Cute shoes. Let me guess, Payless? - Anonymous
September 13, 2006
I would start off the interview by asking my interviewer "So, whos your top 5?". - Anonymous
September 14, 2006
Top 5 candidates or top 5 best wedding songs? - Anonymous
September 14, 2006
"Cute shoes. Reminds me of those remote control boats I used to play with when I was a kid..." - Anonymous
September 14, 2006
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September 14, 2006
At a previous company, our HR team made it their practice to take every prospective employee out for lunch at one of the nearby restaurants. I always thought these sessions were a bit awkward -- especially since you never knew who was sitting around you (our office was in Belmont, CA, which is across the freeway from Oracle HQ) -- until I talked to one of our recruiters about it. She told me that her reason was that you can tell a lot about a person by how they treat a waiter. She also liked to see how people reacted in a chaotic environment, and with a mix of HR, future team members, and sometimes management. I thought that was very interesting.
But then again, I was just there for the free lunches. - Anonymous
September 15, 2006
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September 15, 2006
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September 15, 2006
cbuck- I have done lunch interviews before and they aren't my personal favorite because it's awkward to talk and eat (for both people). But the point you make is a good one. I don't so much focus on how they treat the server because even the most difficult person to work with can be nice to the person that could be spitting in their food. But you can tell a lot about a person's composure so if they are going to be in a customer facing position (and I use the term "customer" generically...could be candidate-facing, partner-facing), it could be good to get a sense of some of their social interaction skills when the topic is lighter versus when you are working through case-study questions. Taking someone out of the traditional in-office interview setting can be good.
Vicki-you are giving good advice. Turning the tables a bit can really help change your perspective. That's why I always think that the time to be looking for a job is whenyou don't need to (hey, I'm a big proponent of interviewing every so often to understand your market value and confirm in your mind whether you are in the right place.
I've rescinded interest before. One recruiter was really shocked when I called her back post-interviews to tell her that now that I knew more about the position, I wasn't interested in it anymore. I do think that the recruiters tend to think of their companies as the "deciders" until you get to the offer stage and the money talk starts. For me, job content has always been much more important. - Anonymous
September 15, 2006
PingBack from http://www.recruiterguy.net/2006/09/15/interview-cartoon/ - Anonymous
September 15, 2006
JJ- That scenario sounds very familiar to me. I wont ask what company it was at.... BUT I wonder if its the same place where I experienced something very similar at a very large online media/technology company whos name I wont mention but their logo is yellow and purple and based in the Silicon Valley.
Did you get the job at the end of the day? - Anonymous
September 15, 2006
Wine-Oh...same exact one I was thinking of. - Anonymous
September 15, 2006
Heather - Yes. I was aware of your topic. Your mentioning of the receptionist reminded me of the incident. After all, we as candidates can't really control how the company act but we can control ourselves. Thanks to Vicki as well. I totally agree with what you and Heather said. Also, I think we all know that one receptionist or a few people don't represent a company. Unfortunately, we are humanbeings and we tend to act on emotions. It is hard to put a genuine smile on our face right after an unpleasant experience (: at least for me:-)), isn't it? What I have learned from this is "expect unexpected". I was unfamiliar with the concept of showing my application form to the receptionist. To me, that was almost like showing my presentation materials to her if I had been there for a business meeting. I could 1)leave 2)argue 3) comply. I complied but I was unhappy.
Wine Oh - if you think you got it then you have. I can't be more specific :-) if you really want to know, let's use email.
J.J. - Anonymous
September 15, 2006
Top 5 ahhh..... its a male thing. - Anonymous
September 15, 2006
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September 17, 2006
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September 18, 2006
JJ-I think Wine-oh and I both know who it was ; )
Bob-well that explains why I didn't get it, but not why Wine-Oh didn't get it. Or maybe he does.
Kit-you make a good point. THe person either 1) has poor judgement or 2) is looking for a shortcut. Either way, could/should make the interview process a quick one.
Wine-Oh- wow! Some of those companies sure pulled out all the stops for you! Cool! - Anonymous
September 18, 2006
JJ did you end up getting an offer from the company? - Anonymous
September 21, 2006
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September 21, 2006
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September 23, 2006
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September 25, 2006
Kit-
I agree. I learned alot from that situatuon. But it was a trade off because it was an awesome gig at the time. People did sue later on. I had to hire a lawyer when i left to get my stock options. Sadly the CEO is loaded and buys people off.
I too have been through the microsoft interview loop expereicne. Its a long day and I wanted a drink at the end. But its thorough to say the least. - Anonymous
January 19, 2009
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January 20, 2009
Ahhh, now there's the voice of reason! Years after the post was written. Whatever. Keep on doing what you do, people. And don't listen to the negativity.